You know what’s wild? Not only have I already gotten used to this change, but I feel like I’m buying more cheap junk than usual. Have all the other shopping spree-ers gone to bed early today? 🤔

i wouldn't say i've gotten used to it but it did strike a little fear into my heart when i realized just what a ridiculous amount of recycle points i'm actually going to need, and then realized it's actively being made harder to get them... so naturally i went and bought nearly 2,000 items – from, guess who, the ever-helpful 's shop.

"oh but we don't want to incentivize buying lots of items really quickly or donating too many RB items at once, it strains the servers!" ok but you did. you very much did incentivize that.

the horns and roses tail is sitting in there for 25k and now i'm scared that if i don't grind for it now, i'll never get it. i still need 30k points to get the highest tier of the RB achivement, and more than that to get the items i want from the shop. that's 30,000 individual items. if i could buy exactly one item per second, that's over 8 hours of clicking/refreshing – plus the time needed to actually stop and donate items before my inventory would fill up.

so just take a little guess as to what behavior you have now incentivized more urgently than ever before?

this feels like another one of those instances of attempting to cope with the "power players" who have accumulated more currency than they know what to do with over the years, and in the process making things borderline unobtainable for casual players who don't want to grind this game every second of every day.

What is happening is akin to an adult telling a kid "you can't do this!", "you can't behave like that!" without giving a convincing reason, it just makes the kid want to do it even more, and you can bet all your RBPs that this super mature 25yo manchild will act the exact same way.

A more sensible reason though is that the harder and more troublesome something is, more valuable it becomes - at least that's the general rule. Staff made it clear they will work hard to hinder hoarding, and Shinwa knows how bad things might end up or how fast those changes will happen. I can't stop them from increasing the already huge gap between old and new players so I'll at least try to save my own ass as much as I can.

How about not allowing a reprice below a certain percentage of the previous price? If your way of making money preys on those who don't have a lot of free time I don't feel bad for you. Don't let the door hit you on the way out, I'll be closing it with a generous amount of force.

different item requests for each user sounds like a GREAT idea for the recycling beast tbh, esp since the timezones have kept players from getting those "cheap" deals in the first place

great to hear there will be some changes here!!

that sounds like it would require way too many caveats to be feasible. there are plenty of valid reasons to price something significantly lower than what it's currently listed at.

for instance the first few people to snag a brand new item might price it at 20mil when its actual value will end up settling closer to 20k; people who resell holiday items for several times what they would actually cost if you just bought the necessary holiday currency and got it yourself; or those really high ticket items that just sit and sit in your shop so you keep cutting the price by 1mil, 2mil, 5mil...

forbidding people from doing that seems extreme and illogical. other people have suggested a warning on the autopricer for price drops over a certain percentage, which would make much more sense. after all, it's not like the site can automatically pass judgement on WHY that price change has occured; it's up to us as the users to determine that.

yeah I was thinking that, it's extremely finicky. The autopricer being the only one makes a lot of sense !

I feel like if the NPC shops just stopped restocking so much for bit it would help lots. Just give them a couple of days off like, for example, the book shop would only open mondays and wednesdays. Also, restocking every 5 minutes is a bit excessive with such a small user base

well let me rant for a bit again i guess.

i just bought 15 for 10,000 sp from the user shops. this is a r94 item. if you restock a r94 item, can't you expect to make more than 10k sp? that's not even 10k sp profit because the main shop price is 2344 sp. so less than 8,000 sp profit on a r94 item. does that make any sense? the next price is 70,000 sp btw. so someone at some time undercut and everyone autopriced to it.

so, since i'm not supposed to hoard (is 15 items hoarding? i did mass buy them, so...) what am i supposed to do? just sit on the ones i restock as the price drops further and further until someone else ends up buying them up? (this is literally just waiting and hoarding though) sell the ones i restock at the crap price and accept the item is worthless now until someone else ends up buying them up? (why should i?) as a r94 it would probably go back up over time since it should restock less frequently than more and more people can autoprice the crap price... so yeah, just accept it sucks for however long that takes? it's not like is the only item on site like this though. just a random example.

really the vibe i'm getting is it's a waste of time to try to make sp restocking. a fool's game. just quest and autoprice like everyone else and hope it works out. and restocking is pretty pointless without people questing to buy the items, so what's it for besides selling to questers? this is what i mean when i ask if i'm doing something bad. i am attempting to raise the price on "super rare" items so i don't feel cheated when i restock them. and it makes me feel like i'm at war or something with people who only do quests because i'm just raising the prices for them. like i'm being bad for taking part in restocking to make a profit, even though that's kinda a cornerstone of pet sites. or so i thought?

i guess my question becomes what ways are actually acceptable to make sp? got me feeling like bezos or something for trying to turn a profit on a damn bow.

side note, i don't think quests should even give out restockable items, probably. that just contributes to market flood. and then... why does vending exist the way it does? to stop people from "hoarding" wizard tokens and instead flood the market with useless junk? or to frag all that useless junk so they end up "hoarding" crystals? or to "hoard" it until the recycle beast asks for it? everything on this site revolves around hoarding in some way so i just don't get it!!!!!!!!

i think what can be done is to let users turn in any item to be recycled. that will reduce the need to hoard items.

for the autopricers, have a warning or let a user check an option to not price the ones under a certain price so they can handprice the items themselves.

please don't remove fragging. i like tossing in items and getting crystals from it. it's fun.

I don't think you buying up the 10ks and then selling for 70k is the problem. I think the issue is the person who dropped it to 10k and then the autopricer made everyone that autopriced drop to 10k. The original price drop, either intentional or by mistake, is what crashed the market on that item.

I think they are trying to discourage people from causing the price drop on purpose when an item is reasonably priced. I also don't think 15 of an item is what they consider hoarding. More like hundreds or thousands of an item is hoarding. Worse intentionally making things worth 70k drop to 1.5k and then buying 100s or 1,000s to hoard, frag or upsell (which it doesn't sound like you did).

Of course I could be reading this thread wrong...

So far this seems a reasonable change, though it will take time to see if it addresses the issues it's trying to solve.

It will be a pain in the butt when it comes to buying seasonal event currency though. I read books to 49 pets and can't earn enough currency to buy 49 of each book from seasonal shops. Maybe people will just consolidate into larger currency dominations when possible. Could also head this off by having staff make more large dominations if they don't already exist i.e. 50 melted together candy hearts. I'll worry about it when/if it becomes an issue.

Yesterday, I was gonna suggest they release new items for moving bundles of currency, like bags of Humming Crystals. I checked the suggestions forum to see if such a thing had been proposed already, and apparently Keith has already turned down the idea ☹️

If nothing else, it sure would be nice if we had a currency exchange feature like they have on Marapets. Exchange your sP for someone else’s Humming Crystals, or your Recycle Beast points for someone else’s Candy Hearts, etc.

Oh well. Thanks for letting me know.

I would LOVE a currency exchange feature. There are times when I have a boatload of currencies I'm not going to use, and it's tedious to make a thread in Advertising where someone tells me what to buy from a currency shop and I set up a trade for them.

If it were possible to sell your special currency through an exchange, that would likely help a lot with hoarding (and buying up a lot of very cheap items). No idea how the one on Mara works, and it'd probably be a trick to code, but I can only see benefits.

I hate this so much.

I just had to spend a ridiculously long time buying up 60 candy hearts, not to hoard but legitimately because I missed the holiday and need to buy from the holiday shop.

Buying currency is already a tedious task and this implication makes it much worse. Earlier this year I bought 2000 humming crystals by hand to get an item in the crystal shop. All were purchased from a single shop that had hundreds of thousands, so I wasn’t inflating crystals or anything like that. It was already a boring task that took me about an hour to do. Now? Forget it, I wouldn’t even attempt it.

I think currencies should be an exception to this wait time.

Could there be an option to not restrict the limit when purchasing from one single users shop or an increased threshold? At least in the short-term until other measures are in place and we see the impact the change has.

Wow, this sucks a lot! How are you gonna incentivize us to buy up all the cheap items to get them off the site by giving us the Fragmentizer and its associated shop of desirable items worth thousands of crystals, then punish us for trying to buy up those cheap items and make doing so even more tedious with this obnoxious timer?

Every day right after I autoprice, I immediately remove everything from my shop under a certain price (3-4k lately) to frag it and to make sure nothing valuable got super duper underpriced (a frequent occurrence - I often find super rares that go for ~70k dropped down to like ~2k by one shop that screws everything up for autopricers). Tonight, as is typical, I found a bunch of rares priced at 1,000 sP and since I had some extra time I went to go buy the other ones priced that way on the shop search so I could frag those too and try to help keep the prices reasonable. (Rares shouldn't be priced at 1k; there is autopricer scamming going on and/or there are too many of those items on site and they need to be bought up and fragged, which was the entire purpose of introducing the Fragmentizer as I understand it.) And so of course I ran into this ridiculous stumbling block trying to clean up the junk. This is a necessary activity that you need your users to engage in or everything is going to end up devalued and overstocked and you know this because you keep introducing item sinks like the Fragmentizer; why are you making it more difficult?

If I sound excessively frustrated by this it's because I'm already sick of getting autopricer-scammed and not only is this new "solution" adding frustration around the whole situation, it does NOTHING to combat the actual problem, which is people drastically underpricing items. It's still happpening. I'd even say it's getting worse. And now this is just making it harder for us to solve the problem on our own by removing the underpriced items in an attempt to maintain item values. People were already buying stuff I inadvertently autopriced too low before I could get it out of my shop because I'm slowed down by the inventory limit and double-checking everything before I frag it. Having to worry about this adds stress and frustration to a paid feature that is supposed to save time and effort.

This is not the solution. This is adding to the problem. And to reiterate, the particular problem I'm talking about is that a few shops intentionally and drastically undercut the typical value of items, leading to considerable losses for people who rely on the autopricer. This is possibly for the purpose of scamming, but sometimes presumably just because they are inexperienced users who don't understand how shops/item values work and seem to think they should price their items to compete with the NPC-shop value shown on the item hover (I see that sometimes with the super rares in new users' shops). Or they just don't care for some reason. These are shops that have like one copy of the item in question, just enough to foul up autopricers. Then a bunch of shops subsequently autoprice their stock of one or a few of these particular items, leading to a long list of individual underpriced items (reinforcing the problem for autopricers if these are not bought up). This has nothing to do with "hoarding".

Sorry for the wall of text sbdfjks. orz I didn't read this until now because I assumed that it was about main shop restocking, and that the shop search wait was just a temporary thing due to the bump in traffic...

I disagree with this being a solution (even just a "bandage") to people buying up and reselling items for a higher price & item hoarding. As someone coming from Neo where reselling/hoarding HAS been a major issue lately, let me say that the limited reselling that I've seen on Subeta is nothing. People here aren't hoarding reasonably priced items and forcing them up well over 2000%+ with all of their guild buddies. If anything, resellers here usually help keep prices stable because of just how many items are generated every single day from mundane tasks, and quests give enough sP as reward that paying an extra 5-10k for a higher rarity item isn't a big deal.

The bigger problem I have seen is people tricking the autopricer (intentionally or unintentionally) and tanking the price of items. Making it more difficult to buy up those underpriced items isn't going to fix that. Yesterday I stumbled upon a shop from a new user who had almost everything priced at 500 sP, and I made sure to buy everything before leaving so that other users wouldn't get tripped up by it.

I regularly buy underpriced & main shop items for Crystals, the Recycling Beast, and Autumn Dragons, both for my own use and so that other users can actually make a profit on them. I honestly feel like what I do helps, because even though the item sinks are great, they can't keep up with everything that quest rewards and the main shops spit out for the current userbase size. If you want an idea of how bad it could be without restockers/sellers/hoarders, just take a look at Retired items: A lot of them hover around 2-5k because the Rift/Carl/etc. keep spitting them out and they aren't requested by quests or the RB and aren't consumable (food, books, stickers, etc.).

If you want people to hoard items less, then reduce the max amount that main shops stock (we don't need 10+ of a single item that can sit for hours and stop people from buying from user shops instead) and/or stop quests from giving so many out so that mass-buying isn't required to keep things in check. (I regularly end up fragging at about half of my quest prizes because it's not worth the time it would take to sell instead.)

If you want people to resell less, then make the autopricer warn when a price has dropped below a certain threshold so that it can't be abused. (Helps stop people from accidentally pricing super low in the first place.)

I am in complete agreement with the users above. I've been buying up WAY more 1000sp and below items since this change came into effect, and I feel like that is super not what was intended to happen!

This would be a super controversial thing to do, but if the ability to vend up to 500 items per user every day is such a bad thing, why not change how vending works? Afterall, the vending machines are clearly crane games, which in real life are ridiculously difficult to get an item out of. You see where I'm going with this, right? ;3

Bump up the price to 5 or even 10 Wizard Tokens per vend, get rid of the cheapest items in the prize pools, ADD a bunch of shiny new items to the pools, and have it so that you only have a CHANCE to grab an item, not have it be guaranteed each time. Would I ragequit if I only managed to pull out an item every 10 tries or so? Maybe! But if I pulled out a brand new, super rare, or even old retired item from the machine, I'd froth at the mouth and wanna try again and again and again.

Also, I'd restock the Crystal Shop more often! "Hoarding" crystals isn't a bad thing! Each crystal represents an item taken out of the system, and if they've been turned in to our banks, it's not like we can take them back out again. They've stopped being items themselves and are now a number in our currencies, waiting to be spent on a 10k pretty. You wanna see items disappear? Put in a bunch of super expensive books at high crystal prices! ✨

I'm not going to make a lengthy post because a lot has already been said and I don't feel like reading through this whole thread or addressing the larger issues at play.

All I want to say is that this is really impacting my interaction with the site in a negative way. I am frustrated daily running into this message while questing.

The only day since this was implemented that I haven't run into this multiple times while doing normal questing was the day that the lag was so bad that questing at all was already like walking waist-deep through sludge. If it shouldn't impact regular questing then it definitely still needs tweaking.