The cruelty free sticker sure is ironic, because veganism is definitely not cruelty free. 👀

I agree with others that the revamp of this event would have been a lot more neat if it was more focused on sustainability, supporting local farmers, and the like.

Gotta chime in that I'm not a fan of the theme or the change.

Alegarten was one of my favorite holidays, because it was one of the few holidays where we reliably got wears that would work for more fantasy-ish outfits. Now we're getting t-shirts with stupid slogans on them, which is very disappointing.

And imo picking veganism as the theme of an entire event is really bizarre. Vegan foods throughout the year makes sense. Dedicating an event to a variety alternate diets or sustainable lifestyles makes sense. But picking a single alternate diet is weird and alienating, and I'm not surprised a lot of people seem pissed off about it. Particularly since many of the items come across as so pushy and negative (go vegan or go home?), or straight-up ignorant (many of the vegan food substitutes are as far from "cruelty free" as you can get).

And I'm saying this as a user who also eats an alternative diet. Changing a holiday that had universal appeal to be about something so specific and controversial is a pretty weird and off-putting choice.

(As a sidenote, I gotta say.... many MANY scientists and professionals involved in environmentalism and animal welfare consider veganism to be very destructive and harmful. I know a lot of users have already pointed out the awful stuff behind cashews, almond milk, agave, kale, etc. and how important beekeeping, hunting, and animal husbandry can be for animals and the environment as a whole. I'm glad that many users are so well-informed and that they're willing to call out bullshit like this.)

This is the exact type of ignorant comment that causes these sorts of vegans vs. meat eater arguments. As someone who owns a dog and seven birds, four of which are chickens, there is a HUGE difference between my pet and something I buy from a store. Nobody can tell me I don't see animals as friends just because I want to eat pot roast or fried chicken. If you don't want to eat meat, that's fine, but taking a shit on someone who wants to consume meat is not ok.

And as several people already stated, don't you dare compare a lifestyle choice to how someone is born and their sexuality. Stop.

i'm hollering omfg comparing a sexual and emotional attraction to veganism omfg brb i need to write something proper bc what the flying fuck [Edit] YOU DON'T PICK TO BE GAY!!! OR LESBIAN!!! OR BISEXUAL!!! OR ACE!! OR TRANS!!! AND ANY OTHER ORIENTATION TYVM. However, you can PICK your lifestyle aka vegan, meat eater, flexitarian or whatever you feel like eating.

I needed to get this out. I really needed to. [Edit] /back on topic

I didn't really feel attacked by any new items. Probably because these items already exist in real life and I'm used to see them on a regular basis. I'm not vegan and I have a pletora of digestive issues (lactose, gluten, 90% of meat, a lot of veggies) so I ain't kidding when I said I will soon live off of water and love. I get why some users would feel unconfortable with said items (I think the sticker and shirts were pointed out quite a few time). I would have liked if these vegans items were introduced in a more natural way (its own festivities maybe?) than switching a nice holiday like Alegarten. It could have stayed Alegarten but my good ol' boy Gunter could have simply brought out this new 'food deal for those veggie fans out there' (not animal lover because yes you can love animals and still eat them. Not everyone has the same type of emotion towards their food). There are a lot of 'alternative' food options very taxing on the planet and its ecosystems tbh.

I don't take things seriously, especially not a virtual holiday on Subeta. At the end of the day, you eat what you want to eat.

Quote by far

Everyone is feeling attacked about what they eat (or don&;t eat) but we all should just ...</p>
<p>Stop eating and live off of love and water.
Oh shit. There won&;t be any water soon.

I'd say these items are on the same base.

My other issues with Neugarten - as I don't think I have anything else to add about the main problem - is, firstly, that it feels kinda forced to me, in two senses: First, how the theme is completely away from Alegarten/oktoberfest, it became a whole other event. Yeah, I know "there's so much you can do with beer and sausage" but the community is always helping the staff and site with great ideas (which we had both here and in the news posts). So, I don't feel Ale was revamped, just swept away. Second, and my main issue, it feels like "OMGOSH!! Potato is sooo the best thing in the world, I looove it, and for a whole week I'll be holding an event ALL ABOUT POTATO." "What do you mean is kinda boring for people that aren't potatoes enthusiasts? Who cares about making an interesting and fun event, all I care is talking nonstop about my love for potato." (nothing against potatoes guys, is just that I love it so much I use as an example for everything)

Another problem is, last year we were told Alegarten would come "bigger and better!", but it's the same thing, just more green and, well, with more popcorn. Honestly, I was never excited about Alegarten, not because of the theme, but the event itself: the only thing that differentiates Alegarten items from sP Special Shops ones is that they are time limited. So, it could have the greatest, most fun theme ever like potato, the event itself is the issue (for me at least).

And to close with something not really related but that I always wanted to say but never had the balls, Subeta, for these past few years, sometimes makes things that makes me feel just like I feel when walking around my university: like shit. Like if I'm not part of the holy minority I'm wrong and unworthy, even if it's things I have no control over. Well, I'm sorry for this.

[edit] Dear Lord, so many new posts while I was writing this wall.

A Renaissance Fair/farmers market would have been amazing! 0_0

And yeah, this really seems like someone's personal bugaboo, rather than a real Subeta event or holiday.

At least the new Oatmeal items are cute ~

[edit] waste of time and energy as usual

- IMAGE REMOVED BY STAFF -

Okay, IDK why anything about being gay had to be brought up in the first place though, because that has exactly 0% to do with anything related to this topic...

Not sure when trying to become more inclusive by adding more diverse NPCs and showing support by adding more LGBT+ items on-site became 'propaganda', but okay . You do you.

Also, we're going off-topic. This is about Neugarten feedback.

I personally think this event could go towards a different direction. I know it was based mostly off of Ocktoberfest, but I also know that the staff is trying to get away from that. Tha Renaissance Faire suggestion someone made before sounds really good. Keep the food and drinking aspect, add some good ol' jousting with pool noodles? Probably mixing up time periods.

But man, imagine a drunk jousting game, similar to that donkey game where if you get alcohol beforehand, it blurs the graphics.

I.... this reply is mind boggling to me, so I'm not going to even reply other than you do you, but I DIDN'T choose to be gay, I just AM gay, so don't compare my struggle, and the struggle of countless others who DIDN'T CHOOSE, to veganism, or whatever point you were trying to make.

Which is exactly why a bunch of us jumped on that comment because it DOESN'T have anything to do with this.

I'm not gonna touch the a lot of the drama surrounding this, but I would love to add my support for the event moving to a more 'sustainable eating/living' theme. I'd have loved to see the gardens get some use in a 'grow your own' type deal. Focus on supporting local farmers. Get the recycling beast involved somehow. Maybe bring in something to do with habitat management or wildlife surveys for endangered species. Plant flowers for bees. Build insect hotels and bird boxes. Idk. It'd be a nice thing to celebrate, and a little more accessible than an event solely based around veganism.

I don't feel personally attacked?? or anything by the items released so far. But I feel that the sustainable living theme would be a nice expansion to what the event has been changed to, and would be more inclusive. I also really like the renaissance fair idea!

what i learned from this thread is that people cant wait to find a reason to throw all their unresolved anger issues at eachother its quite enlightening so thank you

long live Neugarten

Oh, maybe even incorporate the gardens more? Ngl I keep forgetting we even have the gardens, and I was around when they first added that. Maybe add some event exclusive foods you can only get if you plant seeds that you get from NPC quests or doing something for Oatmeal? Or even clicking around site.

Can even turn this into a quest to feed Oatmeal or something because we need more of our lovely Subeta goat. Oatmeal shouldn't be eating paper only!

Can I voice my support for the Market and Renaissance Fair style event for next year? I think that could be a really fun and creative! (Dressing the part, entertainment, battles, etc.)

And there can still be the Vegan/Vegetarian/Other items, maybe even bring back the Food Trucks too?

You had me at "battles", though of course you probably already knew this :P

Oh, I forgot about the food trucks. The place I work for holds an annual food truck festival and I love it, so yes to the food trucks?

I want that drunk game. I really do!

What about a 'find oatmeal' game but when you find the actual goat you just get more and more tipsy? I'd love that. I need me some new games.

I know revamping the gardens was one of the things we could vote on as a part of the wedding celebrations last year, it could have been such a good opportunity to do that - unless there's already stuff in the works for it, of course!! And yes I need to know our poor bby Oatmeal is getting some good food ;^;