No, no, I was only referring to the forum points currency, which kind of forces us into completely senseless blabla postings, which we aren't even allowed :-)

LOL OK. That makes more sense to me. Now we know which one of us isn't that bright... Good news for you! :)

Since I live on the ping-the-person-above-you thread just to get the aforementioned currency so I can get the goodies from the shop, I see your point. You have my support to take out the shop and do away with the points as long as you bring me the things I still need from there! ;)

It'd be nice if the other stat boosters that supposedly stock in the Apoethcary/36 were instead available in the battle shop. Because they'd be locked behind a different currency, you have to battle to earn those tokens to buy them then. And it'd be useful for those of us with higher tier pets that no longer make use of the training center because it doesn't have any value after a certain point, but also find a use for all those tokens we accumulate as well.

Seriously, the shop needs more stuff added to it. Give me a reason to battle for and hoard tokens. Atm, I do just enough to get as many Frozen Froths as possible. It might mean making token drops a bit rarer, especially if you go past 10 wins, but I'd be for it if it meant more items being added to the shop.

I'm actually surprised by just how much I hate these changes, especially the drop down menu for scrolls.

First off, , thank you for your replies. Much upset as I sound, I can compromise with certain changes, but eventually I'd really love the UI to be redesigned so that maximum efficiency is achievable for the majority of battlers, and for those who cannot quite work with it, can find a way around it.

Second, thank you both for the opportunity to offer some suggestions and input. However, I think it'd be best if you can set a general guideline on the first page and specify what may not be possible for the current (and possibly future) coding. That would be one way to keep our expectations (and imagination) in check and us more conscious of what is achievable with the way the current coding works. For example, is it possible to change the layout, and if it is, to what extent; what kind of changes we are allowed to make on our ends, through CustomCSS etc. I think knowing about these would be important because if CustomCSS can help personalise certain things they can be left out from the suggestions, require less work for staff and can be settled among the userbase ourselves.

I will come back in my next post with some of my own suggestions.

Sound so nice, will try it out!

Love the way you think~ That's why I had to quit battling on here for awhile, because Pokemon was just more engaging. But now with a streamlined UI here, I feel more like coming back and battling now that it's quicker. No longer feel the need to skip the first 14 quests on BQs cause I can crack through them much faster than before without having to slog through scrolling the page.

Yes, if you could put a hover over each weapon for what each does (I can never remember which of my weapons deals better physical damage over another for example), that'd be nice.

Could you also make a quick edit on the Choose Weapons page where the first or only available pet is automatically selected? Currently you have to select them, even if it's your one and only available for battling.

(Haven't seen you in a while -- hope all is well!)

I have been wanting that ever since they threw the old magic shop stuff in the AA! :) Constantly having to stalk the AA to get supplies for 20+ battle pets is a 24/7 job! Luckily we have a month between TBT challengers and very few site-wide boss battles so I have time to rs -- provided nothing is happening in RL. lol

Using tokens for boosters... I keep trading down and buying the individual stats boosters since FF is so level happy. I am not happy with the 0 stat boost chance. It seems like it happens much more frequently than it should. 0-3 with an equal chance should work out to 1.5 average stat and I have been averaging 1.2 -- not thrilled about that. I would rather pay more and get a guaranteed stat.

(I'm good, thank you. Just been busy offline more)

Yeah, the chance of a 0 is annoying. That's why i prefer the froth even if it does boost level. I don't train Elfric at the center anymore, so I don't mind level going up at this point.

Why aren't you training him at the center anymore?

That is really nice! Thanks for the update. I may actually battle more now.

- thank you for your response. I completely see your point. I have heard from other high tier pet owners that they are bored because there are no longer any challenges and that they enjoyed getting there more than being there. And I also don't do Battle Quests daily because of time issues (although for me it's that I don't want to quit if I can possibly beat a challenger so it can take me a looong time to get from Level 20 to Level 25). There are days I would totally choose this over the old system for doing BQs up to Level 20 because of the speed.

I do see how battling is often tedious rather than fun and really needs a major overhaul that isn't feasible for Subeta. And I really appreciate all the work put into trying to make it better with the resources available. I've only been involved seriously in two boss battles and am already convinced I don't really want to do another long one if it means hours of just clicking and have much appreciated new ways of doing things (like the hydras) and the TBT challengers.

I guess I'm at the point where I am still relatively new at taking battling seriously, hanging out in the Battle Chat thread, doing BQs, ... My main pet is T9 and it finally feels like she can take on some semi heavy challengers. The battlers have taught me so much about strategy and tactics. I recently bought a Blessed Trident and also have an AoN and a few good scrolls, so I can beat new challengers if I work really hard and I can see possible growth. And I also started a brand new baby battler to use those pesky eggs (and she's already T3) so I've been learning how to work at the lowest end as well (such a difference between T2 and T9 - I had no idea how much I had learned to depend on blasters, percent healers, ...) I was really starting to actually have fun battling (despite the tedium) and the extra confusion and work required by this new layout makes me so frustrated that I'm not having any fun at all.

I really wish that it could be selectable in some way so everyone could be happy. I don't know if that is possible with the current code (or even with some reasonable change). I do know I'm not likely to continue battling much with the new version.

I would really like to see the old layout back - but with weapon selection using a highlight box rather than the little check boxes (to address the issue of missing the box that I've seen mentioned).

And I could even manage to live with preselection if the weapons were chosen for only the first turn and then left at whatever two you chose last time. That way, I could leave my weapons in functional order, but after the first battle turn (when I'm starting to think about other things) there would be more chance that my preferred weapons were selected. If you really use the same two weapons all the time (or almost all the time) it would look just like the new version for you,, but would make a big difference for those who work more like me. Also, it might be better not to automatically deselect the left weapon if a third one is clicked, but make the user choose. Again, those who don't change much wouldn't have to deal with this often (so almost no loss of speed or extra clicks) but a whole lot less confusion for someone like me who changes much more frequently.

The same might work for scrolls as well. Put them back into graphic form and preselect one. Then allow users to deselect or change on the first turn. After that - leave last turn's scroll selected. Not sure what to do about scrolls that are one use - I would prefer to have no scroll selected the next turn so you have to choose, but I could learn to deal with having it default back to the one on the left.

OMG!

ALL HAIL [USER=BUG], MASTER QUALITY OF LIFE / BUG FIXER

But really. Thanks to all!

I understand that nobody likes change at first. And I am usually one of the first in line to point that out. I don't expect to love everything at first sight and am normally willing to put effort into getting used to things But my objections to this change aren't things I believe will get better with more familiarity. Those drop down boxes will never be a reasonable replacement for graphics in my opinion. And taking away the visual and spatial data I use to make decisions is also not a familiarity issue. For me it's more like having a bank account but not having the total amount of money in it or the data about what payments are pending and then expecting me to still be able to pay my bills and know whether I can afford to buy something. Yes, I could write that all down myself as I spend and then go look it up and try to use it with the data the bank gives me, just like I can use the drop down menu, and then try to remember what it said so I know what scrolls or potions I still have available. I need the missing data. It's not there anymore.

As for why I bother with scrolls and potions. Because I can beat more opponents with a much lower tier pet with them. I started a new baby battler and worked hard on AP so that she could use my scrolls and was able to successfully beat opponents she would have had no chance with otherwise.

And I did invest in better weapons. I just bought a Blessed Trident which cost me between six month and one year of my Subeta earnings. So I can't really just do that again right now. I do Shinwa daily and often Quentin as well. And, my objections aren't about EXP because I've still have all mine. I have totally hand trained my main pet to T9 without any auto training, cashing EXP or using boosters. My objection is that I can't be serious about battling with the new layout because of my missing data problem. I do agree that it is absolutely wonderful for no brainer battles, but I can't function with it for those battles where I need/want to think.

Nothing at all wrong with this I often do it myself. But what if I want to try to stretch? For an event, or a boss battle, or to learn (or because a friend on the Battle Chat thread has challenged me). I have often been surprised that with the help of the other battlers my pet can handle much more than I thought possible. So now sometimes I challenge myself too. And this new layout really does get in my way for reasons that have nothing at all to do with just being new. (I have a computer degree, spent years as a software developer and have gotten used to all sorts of changes, but I honestly don't believe the flaws here can be gotten used to in that way.)

- sorry, I think I didn't express myself well. When I said that the change might be easier for experience battlers and higher tier pets, I was not saying that they would (or should) like it. I was simply trying to say that if you are strong enough to win a battle without worrying about what weapons you use each turn, then the new interface can be faster. So if you are willing to not think about battling and are strong enough is might be easier to deal with. I'm not that strong, so I can't do that. And I wouldn't want to anyway.

I am in complete agreement with you on this.

And on this As I said much earlier, for me the drop down menus are totally nonfunctional.

Very true.

Another excellent point. Personally, if I don't want to spend over an hour repeat battling to finally beat Surge in BQs I will often throw a potion or two (or today twelve). And besides the time saved, I suspect that all twelve potions cost me less sP than what I would have had to pay to heal for the dozen (or two dozen or ...) more battles I would have to fight to get to one where I finally win. Am I a less serious battler if I'm willing to battle 40 times to get 1 win as long as I know that win is possible? - I'm sure you must be exhausted. And I would like to apologize if my frustration over this has come out feeling to you as though you are being yelled at. That is definitely not my intent. I am not nearly as good as in expressing myself (especially in text rather than voice). And I admit I have even more trouble when I'm this frustrated, but I want to make it clear that I am and have been extremely impressed with your coding skills, your willingness to listen and respond to users and the sheer amount of work you have managed to get done since you've been on staff. In no way do I want to yell at you (or anyone).

As a former software developer myself I can also understand if you tell us the old UI has to go for coding/efficiency reasons. And I can support that because making Subeta more efficient, making bug fixes or later changes easier are all important and will ultimately benefit everyone.

What I don't understand is when you say the old UI has to go, does that mean the old code has to go, or the old page layout has to go? (I think there is a difference, it is possible to completely recode for efficiency but leave the page looking pretty much the same - or is there some reason why that couldn't be done?)

I really do need all that visual data and I need to be able to see it "at a glance" somehow. I am simply already too overwhelmed dealing with the complexity of weapon, scroll and potion choices, trying to remember what this opponent does, all the minutia of battling to be able to also remember how many potions or what scrolls I still have available without being able to see it in front of my face. And I think the old page layout did that job very well.

Similarly, if I'm repeatedly fighting a challenger at or near my limit (like Surge, in my case) I need to look at all those battle messages - what icons were dealt, how much damage was done by each of us, how much healing was done, I am still learning to try and make better battle choices and to be more intuitive about things (for example when should I use my healer - can I wait one more turn and still be alive, or when should I use that one use full blocker). I have been training myself for some months now to actually look at the battle text and the icons and with the old page layout I can see those things in a readable size on one page and almost never need to scroll. To me if it's not all visible it's like playing chess and having to make my move with part of the board not visible to me. I was taught that the human brain can deal with seven (plus or minus two) things at once. When I'm trying to beat a tough opponent I already feel like there are ten or more things to keep in my brain so I just am not able to add another thing to have to remember.

I have learned to really love the Subeta battle community and have made new friends there who are important to me. I spend time on the Battle Chat thread and I'm just really beginning to enjoy battling. I even made a new battle pet recently. It has become a very large part of my life on Subeta and I truly feel as though that is in jeopardy. I don't do BQs daily because I can't afford the time to beat Surge, but I'm too stubborn to quit if he shows up when I know that I am capable of beating him if I just try enough times. So I am very worried about changes that make things take longer or get harder for me, whether it's eyestrain, or scrolling, or having to remember what battle resources I still have in the middle of a long battle - especially when it's already the fifteenth long battle at this Level of BQs. I hope that makes sense to you.

Just saw this and am so excited. This really does give me hope that all will be well in the end. Thank you!

You Rock :D

Kind of late to the thread, but I'll just add to what others have said about how this feels like an okay-ish design for getting through BQs quickly, but there's more to battling than just BQs. I feel like this format doesn't work as well when you're fighting challengers to get the 5 or 10 wins against them and so you may be changing your strategy each battle.

Even with BQs, I usually change my strategy part of the way through because I can take out the little opponents with one hit but not the harder ones.

Although I have seen mention that on the previous page as well, so hopefully this is something that can get worked out in the future.

I like the auto select for the most part when battle questing, but it makes it tedious to select other weapons for testing out new weapons. Sometimes battlers get new weapons that they don't know what it does and want to test the effects. For example, when the panzer hydra came out and people wanted to play around with the gauntlet and see what it does. You have to purposefully de-select a weapon, deselect the second weapon and then select the gauntlet, then deselect scrolls. Doing that every turn is clumsy. I think it would be better to not have the auto-select since it's easy to toggle between the weapon 1 and weapon 2 slot. I like the idea someone mentioned of having a toggle mode between layouts. Right before you go into battle, you can select battle quest and have a compact layout that is click and go, or select strategic and have a layout that allows you to see your equipment better, battle text to look out for key phrases, your opponents weapons better, and damaging/healing per turn better.

What code are you using? I might have to try that out, but it's a shame to have to add a custom code to a new layout.

How do I change the order of my weapons. I do not like what is now automatically picked. Thank you, Judy

I only battled a little bit with the new system, and did like it so far overall. Thanks for the attention paid to battling!

I'm excited to hear about the other options that are being considered now - especially being able to toggle between battle interfaces.

The main suggestion I'd have for now was already given several times, but it seems like it would be an easy change - would appreciate seeing the healing and damage at the top of the scrolling section instead of at the bottom. That's pretty important stuff to have to scroll so much to see.

I'm excited to see other changes going forward. Thanks again and :)

[edit] go to your armory, click "edit set" then use the + signs to re-order your weapons the way you'd like. Make sure to hit "edit set" at the bottom of the page when you're done.