I definitely agree! And i will be here to support the artists because I am still addicted to CWs even after all this time You're so fantastic, I appreciate all your hard work

I kind of like having different groups but then again, I'm used to masses of pings per day so I don't mind them. I can see how dozens of pings can become overwhelming. I just don't know how this can really be fixed x.x

I dont think it is subeta's aim to be able to 'earn csc' rather than 'just buying' since this is their main income. I get what you mean because it sucks for those who don't have IRL money to spend, but as a compagny I dont know why they'd forfeit income for this. If anything, they'd stimulate the economy with reasons for us to spend loose change on them but as to actually earning csc, I don't know :/

Suggestion: creating an overall billboard / frontpage for slotting cws (people can optionally and freely add their item to this billboard using a submission system.

Billboard entries could be moderated by the cw mods since it's basically just checking a few lines and accepting/denying based off the criterias.

It could be located on the custom wearable page feed here!

The billboard could be used to either take slots (which is the harder to-do method) or simply advertising their new cw (the easier route I'd imagine).

Billboard entries could be automatically cleared after 2 weeks!

Example!

This would offer larger access to the community on slotting first batches. However, I do know this sounds like a lengthy task for programmers lol ;;

I'm just lazy :3

And I forgot to add that I also like your earn csc through quests idea. That's what I was getting at with the "other opportunities to earn csc." I absolutely hate doing quests due to its repetition, but if a csc component is added to it (I think 150 csc minimum a month should be doable--given that the user does their quests everyday--because of the monthly CS Boutique release, allowing a user to buy at least 1 item), then I'd be more motivated to sign on daily and do quests. Another way to stir the economy.

As a business, yes, they'd be interested in profit, but as a business, they should also give back to their customers. $1.50 a month per active member will add up in profits foregone, but it's a small percentage given back to their users based off monthly profits. Who knows, this may even incentive-ize users to further support subeta by opening up their wallets when previously they did not.

I was also thinking of your billboard idea, but I think that might become confusing super fast if there are multiple people releasing something and all taking slots. Probably just to advertise with a link to their own topic where users may take a slot.

150csc per month sounds doable actually, you're right! It sounds like a lot of 'free' csc but at the same time that's like... 1 delish item. And once people get one item, they usually want a few (or the whole set) so it might be a great starter n_n

I definitely understand what you mean about 'profit - give back - profit' method. It's basically what ive been doing for the past years on subeta. And it really has paid off in multiple ways, I do not regret one bit. Now we just need to wait and see if they are willing to take that leap though!

About the billboard - yea I think taking slots would be confusing too. But I do like the idea of posting your cw up and linking to the thread directly. That way there's an official billboard to atleast announce new items up!

Yes :*

I'm a business student, and I help manage my parent's store, so I have a bunch of ideas. It's just a matter of implementation, and whether the company is willing to change some things and/or make a small investment/forego profits.

They already have the loyalty box for users who've been here awhile, and a lot of those redemption options are csc based. I got one when I "joined" last June, since I had already tried subeta out 2 years prior. I got one for doing absolutely nothing for 2 years (I didn't even have access to my account). Why not reward the loyal players that are actually active? 150 csc a month is like 5 csc a day, so it's not too much on a daily basis. They could probably do tiers to further reward the super active users, or a bonus kind of a thing.

Yeah, I think I like the advertising idea. I follow newcw for the newest items since it's a consolidation of almost all the items released. I'd rather go through pages on a single topic and then stray into their individual "shops" rather than browsing through multiple topics. Then releasers can do a minimum of 2 batches, 1 for their private & public groups (because the 1 batch usually fills), and 1+ for the billboard.

loyalty boxes are also tied to your account - you cannot sell any of the totems! CSC reward is tradeable, they might be less keen on the idea simply because a handful of users may just resell it D:

Billboard would likely be on a voluntary basis (ie those who want to offer more exposure) as opposed to an enforced rule. I'm pretty sure many releasers wouldn't be happy if they -had- to make one batch public + open to the billboard. But definitely it would make things easier to browse!

Yes, but with loyalty boxes, they forego the profit they could have made on the option the user chose. If there is enough csc in circulation, then the csc:sp rate won't be as inflated anymore, decreasing the price to something more reasonable. And at the 150 csc a month, it's not a huge amount to be reselling and gaining a ton of profit off of. I gain more sp profit by selling a single rare item I receive from quests when I actually do them lol

Everything is on a voluntary basis, lol. You can't force users to post somewhere. You can't force users to do quests on a daily basis to earn the proposed monthly 150 csc. I'm not saying they have to release to their groups AND advertise on the billboard. I'm saying that releasers will be able to release more batches if they advertise on the billboard vs only releasing to their groups. They already only release 1-2 batches to their private & public groups, so by advertising on the billboard, they're opening up more batches to the public, rather than pinging customwear.

So basically, the billboard will work like customwear, where it's reaching a large group but with no pinging, and is simply a consolidation of the available releases. This can bring in the buyers who haven't joined customwear or any other public groups. It'll just be another option open to commissioners who want to release more than their usual 1-2 batches, but can't fill it within their groups/customwear.

im not sure subeta is actively trying to stabilize the sp/csc ratio :/

I mean, people keep mentioning it (heck, complaining about it lol) but so far answers revolve around 'this is our income' and 'we do not want to create an official ratio'. Which means they're pretty much leaving the inflation into our own hands.

Within that angle, I wonder how much staff is willing to intervene D:

I've already indexed the billboard idea on the first page! I don't know how easy it is to code but here's hoping - it sounds like it could bring one extra batch to people who use, which is great!

Such an unfortunate statement, but alas, they are a for-profit business.

I really hope they consider the csc within quests idea, as that'd be superb!

I know nothing about coding, lol. But I think if it's kept as a starred topic below the rules on the CW forum, and every post within the topic is scheduled to delete itself every 2 weeks, the pages can be kept to a minimum and as current as possible. Is this possible? I have no idea baha

The tricky part will most likely be creating a front-end form in which users can type in their billboard information (name, # of batches, overlay images etc.) and then having a system where it can be moderated afterwards.

And then implementing this somewhere + having it clear automatically!

heya, thanks so much for keeping us updated! ❤️

I totally understand why sp/csc ratio cannot be regulated too much because well... csc is your income. Rather than trying to lower the ratio I feel like the best approach is to stimulate people into buying more with different features instead!

I liked the idea of daily quest for csc because once people have a bit on-hand, they end up wanting more. I definitely dont think there should be as much csc given/earned to basically buy cws. For example one of the ideas was to give out enough csc so that every month, it is near-enough to buy a single delish piece. Most people want more than one piece (if not all) and even just a tiny savings cheers people up! (Heck, I lowered the price of one of my cw wigs from 700 to 650 and people seem to adore this, despite it only being a... 50csc discount!)

I super love the idea of the grab bag, aside from the obvious problem you just pointed out - reselling right after qq I wish people weren't motivated by instant profit because then it'd be a viable thing to do ;__;

^ That was also my concern for 'deleting cws for csc' because people could just submit a private item, delete extra copies and simply get theirs for a very underpriced cost.

Thank you! ❤️

Just want to chime in and say thank you for reading this thread and considering some of these ideas! I particularly hope you and the staff end up doing something along the lines of a daily quest, which I think is motivating in and of itself - kind of like visiting Melody during Luminaire, which I know a ton of people make great effort to do. If a small amount of CSC could be accumulated over time, I think it would raise morale among all the site users and not just the cw community. Since, after all, people in general use CSC to buy cheaper site items waaay more than CWs. Also, while the CW pawn shop has benefits, I would gladly kick it to the curb myself if selling CWs for CSC in user shops became a thing. ;_;

I guess I'm a weirdo. The price of CSC is great! The amount of sP sloshing around means a good chunk of it is ending up in my account, and of that amount I can easily buy 500 CSC from those who would sell it for less than seven days' profit. That's four CWs per month, if I wanted that many. To the degree that any of all y'all want more, well y'should be paying for it, that concupiscense is how high-fashion works. The price of CSC has been rising but the amount of sP we've been getting has been rising too, so the real-cost-to-everyone is about the same. It's a non-issue, and staff should carefully ignore user failure to understand what inflation is.

There IS something staff can do about the price of CSC, that is to make the sP as-a-currency worth more. Give out less per quest, institute some seriously ruthless sP sinks, go back to the deflationary policies they were implementing 2-4 years ago. Most users seem to have difficulty working in a deflationary environment though.

The only reason the Pawn Shop for CWs was instituted in the first IIRC place was because players were devaluing old fashions and this was hurting feelings of the CW creators, and it was also perceived that without some sort of official support that there would be a reduced incentive to create new CWs... There no longer needs to be this incentive, there's thousands of the things, it's like telling humans on a 7.25bn planet to go forth and multiply.

It was IMO a bad idea. The PS placed a minimum price on a CW and inserted an uncontrolled redemption from Subeta to the players of CSC.

As far as rewards for just logging in? Wizard Tokens are like that so Subeta already does this. The actual cost of WT is zero + your RL time to quest, or close to zero as Allard also pays you sP to do his quests. If you want folks to value their WT/login reward more than they do, increase the cost of TS items or decrease the amount given out per quest. Any other scheme you come up with is going to be subject to the same economy unless you lock the rewards to accounts.

hi! What are your income sources on subeta (games, restocking, quests)? ;o So far, it seems most people would say that getting enough sP to buy a cw takes a lot of time - definitely not your definition of '4 cws per week'. I'd imagine most people do not have as much time/dedication as you do!

The idea of giving less sP to make it more valuable could work in an ideal context but I think there'd be a riot before it could be implemented. Also because this would force players to either buy csc or quit - and there are a lot of users who simply do not buy csc for various reasons. We'd end up losing a lot of players that way I think.

So was talking with a friend off site on FB and we were discussing this topic and esp the pawn shop. Where people will buy a brand new CW and then withing 24 hours of it being on site turn around and pawn it. Im not sure if Subeta would even be able to incorporate such a thing, but have it where an item can not be pawned unless it is 30 days on site. That seems fair enough. If I a user wants to sell it before hand place in trades or up in the R200 but the pawn shop wouldn't be an option.

oops I forgot to reply, sorry!

I don't necessarily agree with the enforced rule of not being able to sell a cw unless it is 30 days old because there are multiple reasons why people pawn - and not just to harm the economy. I feel like it is unfair to those who do not want a cw anymore, who really really need csc asap etc.

Because let's face it, selling an item in r200 is a hazardous game: either it's super popular and sells like a vanilla-iced red velvet cupcake or it sits in your thread for the next... 30 days lol

I do however think there could be a limit to how many items can be tossed per week! Say for example 'limit 1 pawned item per day' or 'limit 3 pawned items per week'. The counter would be associated with the user account so that you may not exceed the alloted time.

This way people could still pawn if they really want to but it would become more of a strategic choice and not only a first-resort choice (:

So hi, this is kinda a post I thought about making once then backed off because I haven't really been that active on subeta in forever and if I wasn't so lazy I'd be mass selling a ton of CWs (because of tl;dr reasons not having anything to do with subeta/CWs/CW market or whatever) so I can't say I'd be actively in the CW market anytime in the near future.

BUT, I wanted to add a few things that I think really didn't help the market & just a random thought @ the cost of csc regarding sP.

First the stuff actually related to CWs (both of these points have probably been addressed, which in case just consider me agreeing + offering some thoughts idk)

1. I really loved what the pawn shop was hoping to do.. prior to it's release there were just TONS and tons of CWs that no one could basically give away (I remember people trying to get like 100 csc for stuff, back when everything cost the same to submit) so there was just stuff that people couldn't sell/no one wanted. The pawn shop fixed that, but what ended up happening is what we have now-- a place to make fast cash that makes it really hard to sell a lot of things for anywhere near slot price.

Ideas: This one's tricky because the original problem is always going to be a problem but the problem the pawn shop has created is probably worse (like when the side effects of a drug are worse than what they're being taken for). One thought is obviously what was suggested above (and how it originally was, I think it's solid) and to go back to limiting how much stuff you can pawn, i think 1 item every 6-8 hours or something was the original but I like a smaller daily limit too. Another thought is not having the pawn shop just ALWAYS buying CWs + having a limit? Like pawn shops irl they don't always buy everything (I doubt they stock up on snowblowers in Texas or BBQ Pits in November in Alaska). Maybe the Pawn shop fellow only buys CWs like the first weekend of every month and you can only sell so many? That'd force a cool down period, and give time to sell off the stock he already has, etc?

2. CW shops, like before everyone had batches and the item had x batches and if only 1 filled then there were basically 10 onsite for the foreseeable future. So if someone wanted something badly, they'd have to wait in the next batch and/or hope someone lost interest in the item and sold it. Meaning even less insta-sell-out items had some value because that second batch might never ever fill.

These days, though, that next batch just goes in the shop. So anyone who looses interest in that item can basically never sell it because there's still 7 in the shop. Sometimes they can sell it for -100 csc what they paid for it, but overall I see a mentality of "there's 7 in there I can save slowly or pick up a sweet deal from a seller". I mean, ngl back when I was buying CWs I only bought stuff from CW shops when they were on sale/there was only like 1-2 in there/if I really really really wanted it like badly.

Ideas: I have nothing for this, really. It's just a problem I used to have, and the noticeable inability to resell anything from CW shops made me really not want to buy anything that was in them unless I was going to die without it. Maybe this would be less of an issue if the pawn shop were changed, hard to say.

Lastly, I wanted to toss something regarding csc verses sP.

I get/agree with subeta not getting involved with the cost of csc, obviously one keeps the site in business and the other doesn't.

However I think another petsite has a pretty tolerable concept for their version of "sp to csc" and if subeta could do something akin to it then it'd give people a means for users to obtain a small amount of csc which could help the market some-- If considered I'd DEFINITELY definitely make a point to stress this is a trial idea that could be very temporary so no one thinks otherwise.

Anyways, basically they have a "transferable" and "non-transferable" oblation for their version of csc. Non-transferable means it cannot leave your account ever (you can basically buy cash shop things or sit on it forever), and transferable means you can do whatever you want with it. Every month every user can buy "25 non-transferable CSC" (basically 250 csc) with their sP @ 35k per point. I think that's too high for subeta, I'd say more like 100 csc (that site is literally P2P so 250 csc would get you... a pet name change, 1 autoprice, 1 gender swap for your pet, 1/4th of a pet color, 1/2 a gold account, or like 1 wearable) (yeah no really lol).

Idk if 35k per point would work (3.5m for 100 csc), but if there was a way to make the "converted" csc unable to buy csc cards in the cash shop (but basically anything else) then I'm not sure if this is something that could potentially help offer users a small amount of csc without subeta taking a formal stand on "this is the going rate of csc!" y'know? Like I'm sure people would say I'm not paying more than 3.5m/100csc anymore but if this csc couldn't be used to buy cash shop cards then it couldn't really flood the market/would take people months to save up for stuff/and I dunno like the 3.5m would be the price for the csc you can't buy cards with-- not the csc you can do whatever you want with (does that make sense? I haven't had as much coffee as I should have today).

Anyways, my two or three cents.

I'm not sure if anyone has suggested this yet, but it kind of popped into my head all of the sudden this morning and I felt the need to suggest it? When it comes to the CSC and sP ratio, maybe it would be possible to put a bit of CSC in the loyalty boxes?? Make opening it for CSC an optino? I'm not saying it should be a ton, but maybe a reasonable or useful amount such as 500 CSC or something like that? Just an idea. Not sure if it's been suggested before, but I really don't have the energy to read back and see if it was. xD

Warrior: Maybe the longer one has been on Subeta, the more one gets? E.g. Maybe 100 CSC for one year then 200 for 2nd year, 300 CSC for 3rd year and so on?

Will post the rest of my opinion some other time.