i am not a spokesman for Subeta,nor do I have any insight on their plans or lack of them,I was mearly stating a few facts as I saw them,please do not engage me with anything having to do with this,Thank you

What do we want? MINION ZOO! When do we want it? NOWWWWWWWW!

The minions went in two by two Hoorah! Hoorah! The minions went in two by two Hoorah! Hoorah! The minions went in two by two The Elephos and the Cuddleroo And they all went into the zoo because they had no gallery space.

The minions went in three by three Hoorah! Hoorah! The minions went in three by three Hoorah! Hoorah! The minions went in three by three The Mott, the IgnorANT and the Fuzzbee And they all went into the zoo because they had no gallery space.

The minions went in four by four Hoorah! Hoorah! The minions went in four by four Hoorah! Hoorah! The minions went in four by four The great Jeweled Hippocampus stuck in the door And they all went into the zoo because they had no gallery space.

The minions went in five by five Hoorah! Hoorah! The minions went in five by five Hoorah! Hoorah! The minions went in five by five By hunting each other they kept alive And they all went into the zoo because they had no gallery space.

The minions went in six by six Hoorah! Hoorah! The minions went in six by six Hoorah! Hoorah! The minions went in six by six They turned out three headed monkey because of his tricks And they all went into the zoo Because they had no gallery space

The minions went in seven by seven Hoorah! Hoorah! The minions went in seven by seven Hoorah! Hoorah! The minions went in seven by seven The little Cadpig thought he was going to heaven And they all went into the zoo Because they had no gallery space.

The minions went in eight by eight Hoorah! Hoorah! The minions went in eight by eight Hoorah! Hoorah! The minions went in eight by eight The tortue thought he was going to be late And they all went into the zoo Because they had no gallery space.

The minionss went in nine by nine Hoorah! Hoorah! The minions went in nine by nine Hoorah! Hoorah! The minions went in nine by nine They all came marching up in a long straight line And they all went into the zoo Because they had no gallery space

The minions went in ten by ten Hoorah! Hoorah! The minions went in ten by ten Hoorah! Hoorah! The minions went in ten by ten The last one in was the True Mother Hen And they all went into the zoo Because they had no gallery space.

More shops and more space for store only for GA members instead of a permanent auto price system for GA members are not a good swap, om my opinion.

Well I'm still thinking about and I still weigh all the pros and cons for myself.

How do you mean? GA's already have an autoprice (and in all shops in the new system)

This is what is needed!!!!! There NEEDS to be new coding done! This whole SITE just needs to seriously be recoded from the ground up. If this site was taken down for a month, two months, three, whatever, just to recode everything and make the entire site work properly, then this is what should happen (Not to mention it's the warm summer months coming up and there aren't any on-site holidays that would make people unhappy to miss if the site was just taken down and recoded as soon as Vesnali is over)!!!! If this will allow users to have an infinite amount of unique items in galleries, fixing everything that may be broken, and finishing off promises that were made years ago! If it changes the look of the site, I'm beyond caring. I just want to see the galleries unaffected by limits, the wardrobe working 100% AND the SB staying. As long as that happens, I don't honestly care what happens to the site look, style and navigation-wise. As long as it's clear, crisp, concise, easy to navigate and our sidebar themes (default and unlocked) stick around (who knows, maybe some new default themes could come out of this?!? Luna, maybe?) that's what's most important along with the galleries, SB and wardrobe. Everything else that's important on site that all users love need to be fixed. This whole site needs to be fixed and not keep having patchwork done. It's as bad as a patchwork quilt - nothing goes together, they're just pieced together. Staff thinks that the shops are the primary issue that causes all these errors. What if they're not? What if there are more underlying issues, even tiny ones, that are causing these errors but they're not being found because focus is being put solely on shops/galleries?? Then what? More patchwork fixing will be done (and bring up a lot more unhappy/frustrated players).

This site just needs to be fixed. Permanently. Take it down and just re-write everything and then have a fabulous grand re-opening! Something exciting! Maybe that could even include a couple of new pets, some pet slots and colours, battle challengers and great new items along with new perks for GAs! Anything! The patchwork fixes that are being done right now, however, just may not work or keep things going in the long run and scheme of things.

I have posted this in the General Discussion thread, too.

People are already losing interest in Subeta, and it's not worth it to go and take down a website.

A recode can absolutely be done without taking the site down for months - Flight Rising is doing it, and is getting better at showing progress reports.

But, taking Subeta down for months will not be good.

A lot of ambivalent players are going to leave, and even a lot of regulars are going to go and go to greener pastures. I know I have seen several interesting projects on my Tumblr dash lately.

A recode SHOULD be happening, hell, it should have happened years ago. There is no way that Subeta should still be running on mismatched code. But, not at the detriment of taking the site down for months, now.

This is a gamble a site in a good position financially and socially can afford, because the users are going to be patient and flock back. But the Subeta userbase doesn't have patience anymore. For many people, it's going to be the final straw, and the better days will be elsewhere.

Subeta made mistakes years ago, and this attempt to repair them is okay, but not great. More brainstorming should have been done beforehand.

Take the site down for a few months and 70% of the users will be long gone XD

Agrees with Miss

i mean taking the site down a day or two (with warning ofc)? okay i could handle that if some serious stuff got done/was attempted

months? thankfully that's just someone's suggestion

i am very grateful that staff seems to be taking a lot of our input into consideration about this. still very meh about non-GA users having fewer shops because that does feel more like a pay to win situation and i don't like that. lower limits are fine, but fewer shops just... doesn't sit well with me.

@ Keith - Thank you for the response. I do see that you and the staff are listening to the users and realizing your mistakes. It makes me very happy knowing our voices are not completely ignored.

While I'm still not 100% on board for the shop/gallery change as is, I do feel more confident in Subeta as a whole. ^-^ I'm looking forward to seeing the lessening of the GA to non-GA gap.

One of my friends told:

I hope it's temporary, but if this is not I'm not agree with the staff about this difference.

It's absolutely temporary. Staff has said it's being worked on and GA users will have autopricer in their three shops. (even when the limits are raised)

All right. It would be great when this will be fixed. :)

This is what I have been feeling and saying for a while now. We need a recode, and staff needs to bite the bullet and accept that it needs to happen. Not in segments. Altogether. No, we do not need the site to be taken down to do it. But working on it off to the side, but showing progress reports would be great. I WOULD SUPPORT AND HELP FUND THAT.

I am worried that the poor execution of this is just going to kill an already weakening relationship between staff and members. Honestly, I do not have a gallery or large shop, so this is no huge issue to me (my shop and gallery can rot as legacy until all the bugs and limits are worked out). But the way this was executed has put a REALLY bad taste in my mouth.

Honestly, the only thing that would encourage me about Subeta's future would be an announcement about a recode happening (again, not taking Subeta down to do it, but the recode that was started and lost years ago). THAT would be encouraging. THAT would help build some trust again. And seeing progress would continue to raise that trust. A recode is needed anyway, so I think it would be a good next step for Subeta to take to bounce back from this Hellishly bad shop recode.

And for the love of all that is good and holy, please PLEASE Staff, I am begging you here, THINK ABOUT ALL ASPECTS OF A NEW CHANGE BEFORE DOING THIS AGAIN. People would be upset about this no matter how it happened, but there is a LOT about this outrage and frustration that the staff could have avoided with more forethought, planning, and better execution/explanation.

Oooh, like what? :o I went looking through all the other pet sites and stuff I could find a few months ago, but I wasn't really impressed with anything.

They tried the complete rewrite thing before (that was the mythical Recode), and it didn't really go anywhere. And realistically, it should absolutely be possible to get the same end result by recoding one feature at a time. Code is supposed to be modular like that.

It's sort of like if you wanted to upgrade your computer. You could save up money for a year or two and then buy a brand new computer, but you're stuck using your crappy old computer during that time. Alternatively, you could upgrade your RAM this month, and then your video card next month, and add in a new HDD in a couple months. Eventually you end up with a total upgrade that rivals the new computer you could have bought in one go, except you've had incremental upgrades every few weeks and got to see immediate results.

And then there are the people calling for the computer to be shut down and set aside for a few months while all the new parts ship, which clearly makes no sense. :P

Except... that's exactly what giving more money-making advantages to GA players is?

Autopricers don't confer advantages. Being able to see the lowest price in the "Edit Shop" section doesn't confer an advantage. They're perks - if I were selling 1,000 items, and a non-GA player was selling 1,000 items, I could price mine faster, but we could both sell 1,000 items. They're not required in order to sell more items. The playing field is level.

But giving me room to sell 1,000 items, and only giving that same non-GA user enough room to sell 500 or even 750, gives me an unfair advantage over them. For our playing field to be level then, they would have to either a.) spend real money to buy a GA medal, or b.) work twice as hard as me just to make enough sP to buy CSC (that someone else paid cash for) for one, and then have to work even harder to make up for that in order to close the gap. They would have to make 100mil just to catch up to my 50mil, and they would have to work three or four times as hard to do it.

How is that not pay-to-win? You can "narrow the gap" all you want, but unless everyone has access to the same number of shops and the same number of items, what you're setting up is a pay-to-win scenario. I will not spend my money - or anyone else's money - on a pay-to-win site, and it's looking like more and more players are of the same mindset.

Do you really want to alienate your user base like this, Keith? Even more than you already have?

People who buy CSC can sell it and make $$$$ way faster than a user who doesn't buy any CSC. isn't that already "pay 2 win"?

pay to win, to me, is like in maplestory when they introduced the potential system which dramatically made you stronger. you could buy things in their cash shop to give you a chance at getting better potential on your equipment. the more money you put in, the more likely it is that you would end up with decent stats. so eventually you got the players who bought them a lot that were significantly stronger than the other players, and it almost forced you to want to spend money because you were so weak.

last I heard, the difference between GAs and nonGAs in terms of shops is going to be reevaluated anyway.

I posted I think yesterday that my new shop had the autopricing working. I have autopriced there twice in 2 days. And, yay, I actually have a couple sales! :D Still waiting to hear what the limits will be raised to for shops/galleries and items in each, as I cannot work with what they have now.

If I recall correctly (and my memory may be fuzzy) the recode was going along nicely, and then was all lost when the development server crashed (or something like that) and all the code was wiped out. Which is something no one could ever really blame Keith for (backing up a developmental server had not been a thought). And at the time, we were getting previews of the process and updates... honestly, that was all fairly well done (communication wise) since feedback was taken throughout and plans changed based on it.

With how bad the coding is, I still worry about a truly modular approach. Using the computer example: you can put all the fancy ram in the old computer, but if the monitor, keyboard, and harddrive are all bad and about to fully break, the ram isn't going to help or be effective. I could see developing the recode in segments, or even beta testing in segments, but the patchwork quilt that is Subeta eventually needs to be redone as a whole new blanket without any patches. I am not entirely certain that doing it in pieces would work the same (since, over the years, it clearly hasn't been working too well).

Of course, not saying that while a recode is done, the current site coding should be left to rot, but over the years and all the patchwork, I am just... not really confident in a piece-by-piece process anymore. Honestly, if a newer site like Flight Rising is already doing a full recode (which I know nothing about, and cannot really speak to how that process is going), then Subeta should really strive do the same.

Either way, all-at-once or piece-by-piece, staff needs to focus on recoding and needs to be very open to users about it and the process. I think that may help users gain more perspective and build some confidence through their honesty and openness. Well, hopefully anyway.

Arbor reblogged something yesterday that really tickled my fancy, and I'm going to look at her blog again to find the project because it looks super sweet! :D