you worded it a million times better than i did

Why don't we have a shop that has some of the older cash shop items in it? once they stick around for so long in the cash shop, they can just be moved into the more expensive sP version of it.

And what will happen once you hit 10 bil? If that is the only thing keeping you here, will hitting your goal finally be the end? It doesn't sound like much left for you is here unfortunately no matter what happens.

I don't support nerfing quests rewards at all. Wizard's sP reward could be lowered a bit, but I imagine that's the quest people with little time do first so I don't want to see it nerfed to the ground. I like that we have to way to get a good profit from at least one quest. Not everyone has hours to sit here clicking.

I make maybe 1.5-2m a day, doing all quests. I definitely lose some money here and there doing some quests I shouldn't but I need quest points and want achievements so I don't really mind. The only reason I even bother doing more than Wiz and Sagi (when he's not broken) is because I want to save up for those insanely expensive pet slots. The most I've ever had is like 20m ish so yeah, they're crazy prices to me. But I can earn 1-2m or so a day which makes them attainable. I have to work it for but I actually can work for it, unlike on other sites like Neopets where its nearly impossible to earn anything. I've already gotten the first so I know I can get the rest if I keep questing and saving. If it was hopeless and I felt like I could never earn the things I want, I'd leave. This is a game. Removing the most reliable way people have to make money would be ridiculous and do far more harm than good.

Turning some CSC features/releases into sP ones sounds like a good way to start sinking money. I don't buy any CSC stuff so it doesn't affect me at all, but the suggestions all sound reasonable so far. Fancy sP wearable shop is another good idea.

Spending SP on fellow users is not a money sink. It doesn't solve the problem at hand. We need more ways to get SP out of the economy, not more ways to have SP change from hand to hand

Yet it can be a money sink. Making purchases from the MC and antique shop for other users, where does that sP go? Out of the system.

I don't expect the billionaires to do so nor will I think less of them if they don't, but there ARE things to spend their sP on. Do they have all their collections completed? Plushie, beanbag, wardrobe? Well wait, that doesn't interest them? Well no wonder they have a surplus of sP.

Or even making purchases from other users, users who do want things from the MC, sP pet slots, antique shop, hair salon, etc. If someone purchased 20m sP of items from me it's going straight to a new pet slot. Then 40m. There lots of items in the antique shop I'd love to have. But I don't hoard my money, I spend it.

Are the billionaires the underlining problem? No, I don't think so. My point is they keep saying they have nothing to spend it on but yet they do. They just choose not to. I'm not saying it's a solve all problem solution either but just an option out there that isn't being utilized.

That aside, I think it would be awesome to switch the vanity lines, etc into sP items. I love the lines but when they are released I don't go buy csc for them. I'll buy them if I already have csc. I think they'll have better sales if it were sP driven.

This thread has been fascinating. I agree that I want quests to stay profitable, if only because restocking hasn't been as much, but what about making quests more complicated and tweaking their items they ask for and rewards. Make them a little more of a gamble and some days just too hard to do- loved Alexander asking for mystery box items, maybe it makes sense to do that for someone else like Carl or Cinthia.

Also very interested in seeing what features could go from CSC to sP.

Couldn't this cause people to skip buying CSC at all? And could that be implying a direct CSC to sP conversion ratio?

old stuff people don't buy anyway? they would have to make the sP costs higher than the cost it would be to pay sP for CSC. they could also not move everything there, just certain things. maybe the things that there aren't too many of in shops.

Hm, so like an Antique Shop type thing? Or I guess just put them in a tab in the Antique Shop, since that deals with such high prices. I could see that working with some older items.

perhaps! it would make sense for it just to be things that have been retired a certain amount of time so no one can rely on something moving from the cash shop directly to the new shop.

If I want to give things to people with hundreds of millions, I'd rather give many tiny things than gift three-four people things from the Antique Shop. The MC is not as bad but yeah.

That's not working as well as it should, because most gift bombers are going to give more stuff to people, but stuff that costs less on average.

I would have bought the bird posters for SP, not so much for CSC. Took me six months to figure out if I wanted the cookie wigs enough to buy them. Plus, I think these items having a SP worth is going to make them easier to sell, because we have a price ceiling on them. I got things like the Dragon books from the cash shop a while ago, if the price is over the rate of CSC, I can still make a profit, without these books being HTS as hell.

I love the idea!

Saw in the news thread there's going to be serious consideration given to a flat shop tax.

Hey, I have a better idea. Remove the shop buff completely.

Same exact outcome, less effort, and less cranky userbase instead of people seeing money taken away from them, we'll just be back to the status quo.

Keith posted on No shop discount buff?:

I'm moving up slowly the amount of purchases for it to trigger. It was meant as a sort of gap while we removed the ability to haggle, and will be slowly going away, it was never meant to be permanent.

So we're talking doing away with the buff PLUS a shop tax?

Hahahahahahaha. Okay. Well, if we thought the Vault thread was dramatic...

Why not just raise prices? The optic of "more taxes", as we see in RL, doesn't ever go over well.

A 3% sales tax on all purchases, user shop and main shop alike wouldn't bother me.

Where I live, sales tax is a little under 15%. Now, that's bothersome!

brb, buying popcorn for everyone

shop tax is up in the air right now, not sure if I really like the idea or not. probably going to bring in more anger than support, which I don't agree with. also doing away with interest + adding a tax... why can't we stick with one thing? idk, I'd prefer other things I think, but the tax is not the end of the world. I can probably post some good taxation without representation gifs or have some political references thrown at people, but those often go unappreciated.

BRB buying stock in a popcorn factory.

Yeah, I'm selfish and I don't like the idea of a tax on all purchases because that would impact my Subeta habits very drastically, and I am having trouble seeing how that benefits the site.

Sure, it takes sP out of circulation at a greater rate, but at the same time it discourages buying and activity and questing. I thought the idea was to encourage more activity in questing and activity on the site in general. I feel like raising NPC shop prices would do the same thing and be better optics.

I feel much the same way. I can't really articulate why I think it's not a great idea, and would like to stick with one thing that isn't an actual tax. I'm betting we'll see a bazillion V for Vendetta gifs proliferating.

Tea party?

We do have the severely useless councilors representing us. OFF WITH THEIR HEADS.

FR has a 1%/3%/5% tax on every user-to-user transaction, that is cut from the SELLER'S PROFITS. So, income tax, rather than sales tax. The buyer doesn't have any tax to pay.

Maybe if they save it till next year there can be a plot around taxation without representation, NPCs taking, and the end result can be a political compromise: user shop taxes to fund the creation of a Post-Cash Shop Shop, selling retired CSC items for high sP.

maybe there can be a plot where we throw into the ocean by Delphi and revolt against whatever government is in place in the land. I always love homages.

I think I'm more dreading the reaction of people to the change than the change itself. maybe a bit of selfish oh no I don't make that 3% of sP now kinda thing. can't help those reactions though, our instincts are to protect our own interests above all else.

aw you sorta beat me to that. as long as we get to throw tea into the ocean.

Oh, you know what bothers me about the sales tax idea? How it would affect trades.

I know if the tax went into effect I'd avoid high-sP shop purchases like the plague. If trades get taxed as well, and because trades and/or store sales can involve CSC, does that mean CSC also gets taxed?

Ahahaha. You want a firestorm, try taxing people on their CSC.

I feel this idea's problematic at best.

Edit: That's true, which is why I buy and sell next to nothing on FR and prefer to sell it straight back even if that means selling at a loss. I maintain that a sales tax will reduce activity and sales and may not be the solution the site is looking for.

I find myself in the same boat. My first thought was OH GOD NO ARE YOU KIDDING WHY WOULD YOU WANT THAT DRAMA JFC THERE HAS TO BE A BETTER WAY. It was a completely visceral reaction.