Testing: NPC Reputation & Quests #2
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There's so much lag today.. both in Kumos and in legacy (or is it just me?🤔)
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Reducing the number of quests to 3 is, if you will excuse my English, bloody stupid. If the current populace, that isn&;t in the apparently small percentage of us who do quests, can&;t be arsed to do three of each quest now, why exactly would they do so in future?
The goal is for each quest to be more profitable than its counterpart on legacy, meaning more people will be enticed into doing quests because they are more "worth it". Additionally, each quest giver is only giving 3 or 5 with the intention of having more NPCs involved and giving quests, opening the site to a lot more NPC driven activities which can be useful in plots, events, etc. and can create opportunity for more unique NPC related items and achievements.
Not to be rude, but I don't need you to rehash Keith's poor ideas. I read the first 37 pages of that dumpster fire of a first thread. Ruined my weekend. Again, he has so far proven that they aren't worth doing and why he can't just update the current system instead of creating problems with a new unneeded system is beyond me, but so goes Subeta. And I don't give a flying rat's about the NPCs, I just want to do my quests. Achievements can get knotted since he is disregarding all the ones those of us who have achieved the quest ones in the past. Note how many achievements revolved around hoarding and then Subeta got stroppy about people hoarding.
Why is our CHOICE to do as many or as little quests as we like being taken away?
In the long run, it's not. There will be many quests to do on Kumos, just like there are on legacy. They are just intended to be a bit easier to do mechanics wise and more profitable to encourage more users to join and stay. We all still have the choice to do as many or as few of the available quests as we'd like to do.
Again, rehashing and I'm already pissed off with the situation. Our choice is being taken away because we can only do whatever quests some random generator or person decides we can do for the day, instead of doing as many quests as we choose like we have done for the past almost two decades. I'd call the new system the illusion of choice. I don't like being dictated to. There is nothing difficult with the current quests, I can easily make 3-4MIL a day on the regular quests. The new quests just have people, AGAIN, abusing the economy and losing money. So guess what, Keith, now I am hoarding for no damn reason because I can't trust the site's direction.
How many paying customers are you planning on alienating because you randomly want to change quests?
Keith and staff have explained that the goal in making these changes is taking feedback given, especially from new users, and using it to make the site more appealing to people so that Subeta can hopefully thrive again in the future. I know it's hard. I too have had reservations about some of the changes going on around the site, and have been frustrated at times feeling like there's a lot of us saying we're not liking a proposed change and then it goes ahead - but the point is to let the things get tested, tweaked, and truly tried and then give feedback. It's also helpful to remember that there are a lot more people on the site than there are people active on these forums.
I don't know if you meant for this last part to come off as condescending or dismissive, but it does. Keith has ignored any feedback regarding the concerns of users since the fifth page of the original post. He has only noted people's feedback on using the clunky, unusable Kumos site and it's poor attempt at quests and shops. I only posted my tirade because Amber was insistent that we voice our concerns, even though they are blatantly being disregarded. Yes, way more people on the site than the forums, so where is all this magical feedback from new users coming from? Why are old and stupidly loyal users not being listened to or heard? Transparency has always been a Subeta issue. I've spent less time on the site and doing quests now because what's the bloody point?
No changes on this site have been this drastic or blatantly underhanded. Being utterly clueless anyone was thinking about changing quests for three months is not on. I could draw parallels with the current state of the world and how this site is going, but let's not get me too riled up before bed.
It was sneaky, it is still sneaky. Anyone disagreeing with Keith is being ignored. Fine, I can still be a loud git. And after 17+ years on this site, I think I have every right to be heard.
Wait, so like, are the new stupidly-high Kumos NPC shop prices intentional? It's supposed to be working that way? They're supposed to almost always be higher than usershop prices? Lol ok... Time to start hoarding literally everything that restocks in legacy shops!
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Sorry for the ping , but I finally found a good example of NPC shop prices being all over the place for the same item.
First image (top left) is from the quest itself. Then going to the right image, on top is the NPC shop price on the quest bar, and immediately at the bottom is the Kumos NPC shop. And below that is the legacy shop, which is usually cheaper than any of the Kumos NPC shops (not counting the discount card, as I know that's not coded in yet)
I'm unsure how easy it is to fix, but having a visual example of how it changes from one place to another may help pinpoint it?
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Update Notes From Discord
yes, it should not be my job to communicate this. yes, there is way too much communication happening in too many places. yes, I am paraphrasing my best here.NPC Shop Prices
Why?
- NPC shop prices were never updated to reflect two decades of growth to the community size and economy
What?
- Dynamic Pricing System
- NPC shops are being given a new "base" price for items that is higher than legacy prices (but still relatively low)
- When an item sells out, it will restock with a higher price
- Items have price caps based on rarity, they will not just go up endlessly
- When the items stop being bought from the NPC shop and get bought from user shops instead, the price in the NPC shop will start to drop until they begin being purchased / sold out again
What about Quest Prizes?
- Quest prizes are linked to NPC shop prices
- Quests should continue to give more profit per quest than legacy
Change in General
Keith has expressed that while he continues to seek and consider feedback, (1) he wants everyone to give completed versions of things a fair try before making up our minds (2) Subeta will at times experience changes that he tries / makes because he wants to try them, no matter some of the initial feedback. This is because Subeta is his site he created, that he works on for free (he does not take any payment for what he does for the site). To keep himself engaged and motivated to work on the site in such a way that it is here for another decade plus, he needs to be permitted to do things that interest him.Other
My own hope is that we will all (myself included) give change a chance and offer thoughtful feedback. Boards full of ill-informed or "jump-the-gun" (there will always be hiccups) feedback isn't constructive. All the voices in the community should be heard. Please be mindful of how best to communicate so that yours is.I strongly recommend trying to check in on the Discord when you can. There is discussion that goes by in passing there that can help you keep up to date on the changes. Use the search feature to find just Keith's comments. I know, I know. Don't shoot the self-appointed messenger please.
everyday deeds of ordinary folk,
that keeps the darkness at bay.
Simple acts of kindness and love"
The Hobbit (film)
Thank you so much for forwarding this here!
"Update Notes From Discord" No, absolutely no and again NO!!!! We are on Subeta and have boards here, created by Keith asking for testing and feed back. The Subeta community does not need to search high and low and go elsewhere in order to discuss and find answers for on site stuff!
As I've said before: I have no desire to join (any at all, but definitely not) a platform claiming it's for creating mischief - nomen est omen. Officials communicating on site material elsewhere INSTEAD of here causes discord already.
Back to topic: So does Keith wish we stop listing bugs, inconsistencies and the like? Close this topic?
As I've said on the Active Pet topic, to me it all sounds scary, overwhelming and even more time consuming without the benefit of having been and worked like mad here for decades. I am more than willing to try it all out, and if it's only because I don't want to dump 18 years of my life. Yet, if not even the layout becomes anywhere easy to navigate and user friendly like it's on legacy now, ... I don't know... and so far we're only dealing with questing, which, going by Keith, is not a very favoured activity.
I agree with you about Discord. I'm hoping Keith will let us know what will be happening to the Discount Buff and Discount Cards but I don't want to keep searching for his posts on Discord in case he provides the information there instead of on Subeta.
[tot=Ciannwn]
@ Faune With respect, and appreciating your attempt to be helpful, is not a second messenger copy/pasting some of what Keith says on discord not just further fracturing the communication pipeline?
I'm wondering if too much is trying to be said right now. These features are all in alpha status at best. They don't all need announcement threads, they need minimal explanation and a clear expectation of the type of feedback Keith is looking for, for each project. Let's narrow everything down; if Keith wants to use discord to chat and live update that's fine, it's a good tool for discussing with testers while he's tweaking things. But it's a rotten tool for pushing updates to the userbase. I think perhaps he is jumping the gun asking for feedback from as many users as possible (or perhaps we are, I'm not sure if that's something he has said or just our expectations right now?), especially casual users. This is really early testing. We don't all need to give input. Especially when we don't even know what the end results are going to look like. It needs to work first, before most of us can give input. Maybe Keith can keep these handful of users who are happy to screenshot and report discrepancies and bugs. And then make an announcement thread here, on the site, when a feature is more filled out and ready for a lot of feedback.
And a public poll or a thread asking users what NPCs they like, might be a better way to get feedback about that, because that is a question that even casual users are actually happy to answer.
Even ignoring all of the crazy bugs I've experienced with the new quests so far, I cannot see myself continuing to play Subeta on a regular basis if quests are exclusively on the Kumos site in the future. I just find the interface so unintuitive. Outside of holiday events, the main thing I do on Subeta is grind through the legacy quests while an ASMR video plays in another tab, and I find it super relaxing to zone out like this. If that goes away, I'm not really sure what my daily play will even look like. I only use the Kumos site for the wardrobe because it's confusing and untidy. I've been here for 17 years so maybe I'm just overly resistant to anything not on the legacy site, but that's how I'm feeling about this situation. Nothing about the Kumos version feels "streamlined" to me.
Runway Ready still isn't showing reputation points.
[tot=Ciannwn]
Quest feedback:
- Seems like Wizard rewards have dropped?
- Difference in shop and user shop price + "1 per day" limit means I had to quit 2 Saggi quests of 5 yesterday :( Maybe quest-givers should only be able to ask for a "1 per day" item once per day (for a user)?
everyday deeds of ordinary folk,
that keeps the darkness at bay.
Simple acts of kindness and love"
The Hobbit (film)
Thanks. So it's just Sticker Resistance not resetting for several days for me.
Is Sticker Resistance not resetting intentional?
[tot=Ciannwn]
Hi everyone.
I'm putting this post here because I have no idea where to actually post it.
I play Subeta using the J.A.W.S. screen reader. I was alerted to the testing of the Wizard quests on Kumos and thought it would be fun to give it a try and post my thoughts. It didn't work out. I can't post on the Kumos forums. I can click (my equivalent of a click is to move by the Tab key or the arrow keys.) I was able to type a messagel. Then came the problem. I couldn't "click" out of the input box and actually post the message. No matter what button I pushed, no matter what combination of buttons I tried the only thing that worked was ctrl+A4 which closes the whole tab. I'm hoping that someone may have a way for me to get out of the input box that may allow me to post. If not, then the forums will be lost to me when Kumos goes live and that's the last thing I want.
Thank you for your consideration on this matter. :D
- Visit my shop, Autumn Haven!
- my wishlist.
- I am blind and play using a screen reader.
- ping me if you want my attention.
(1) he wants everyone to give completed versions of things a fair try before making up our minds
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then, pardon my language, but WHY THE FUCK are they explicitly asking for feedback ON THE APPARENTLY ALPHA BUILD in official forum threads, insisting that negative feedback is absolutely being listened to and considered in news posts, we just have to keep posting it, when he can't even be bothered to post this clarification on the actual site itself - he has two official websites and he's using a third party app to pass this info along??? - he's asking for these comment on?
I gave up on the new quests because they're so obnoxious right now and you make pennies (as is apparently intended with "dynamic pricing" despite him saying they're supposed to get you more than the daily 10 on classic? make up your minds please!) compared to normal quests, which this testing has, frankly, put me off of doing because I'm so freaking done with the site and how they're handling it right now.
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<p> to be ignored with all the others who said no, this is horrible, but Amber says we should still put forth effort to say we don&;t like it even though someone&;s mind is clearly made up.</p>
<p>Reducing the number of quests to 3 is, if you will excuse my English, bloody stupid. If the current populace, that isn&;t in the apparently small percentage of us who do quests, can&;t be arsed to do three of each quest now, why exactly would they do so in future? I did try out this new system, horrid. Did two and left. The Kumos site in general is not user friendly or smooth or anything. I only go there for the wardrobe since I can&;t do it anywhere else.</p>
<p>I get the change in number from 30 quests each to 15 whenever that occurred, but 3 or 5 if you have a GA? What will be the point of being on the site then? Do you know how many damn hours I spend on this site?? Do you know why I spend so many hours on this site? I&;ll give you one guess.</p>
<p>Why is our CHOICE to do as many or as little quests as we like being taken away?</p>
<p>I&;d note how many people who pay real world money for gold accounts have told you no, I do not like this and can see themselves no longer paying, have voiced their opinions. Tell me, does this large percent who don&;t do quests contribute real dollars to this site? Do you have a breakdown of that information? I finally was able to actually start paying for a gold account this year, and now you&;re making me think I should rethink that choice. How many paying customers are you planning on alienating because you randomly want to change quests?</p>
<p>I am one of those people who for the better part of 17+ years has done every quest every day, it&;s been harder to do the past couple of years, but I&;m getting back into the habit because I like doing them. Yes, they can be quite mindless, but I bloody enjoy it, and in case you haven&;t looked outside recently, joy is getting hard to find. I wouldn&;t do it if I found it to be a chore.</p>
<p>Yes, I hoard wizard tokens, sP, and any other currency I can get, why is that an issue? Gods know I will never have this much money in real life, so I&;m going to enjoy it in this fake one, I thank you.</p>
<p>I read all 37 pages of this thread last Friday night, having been completely oblivious that someone was trying to mess everything up. To say I got pissed is an understatement. You are not addressing those of us who have legitimate concerns. After about the first five pages it feels like those of us who are displeased have been ignored. It feels like your mind is clearly already set on destroying how we do quests and tough tits to those of us who have been here for years and years and years, here&;s the door, don&;t let it hit you in the arse on the way out. That is all I am seeing. As for those of us who have reached the top tiers of the quest achievements, we seem to just be getting thanks, here&;s a cheap gold watch.</p>
<p>I don&;t read what the NPCs say, nor do I care. Why not introduce these random NPC quests as the weekend quests instead of selecting one of the current ones to be highlighted each weekend? You could introduce a couple each weekend, let someone decide if they want to do them.</p>
<p>There&;s too many currencies? Whose fault is that? Combine Recycle Beast and Fragmentizer. Combine Steamworks and Lounge Trinkets. For the love of everything unholy, get rid of the Subeautique Invitations, I cannot stand when those are automatically added to the count. I have 161 of the silly things, they are not that useful and I sure don&;t use them often enough.</p>
<p>Now that I have made myself irate again... If these past few pages is anything to go by, this new system pays out pennies, it is not an optimal way to keep the economy running and for people to actually make sP, and will just make people hoard more items, and we all know how irritating you find the hoarding of objects.</p>
<p>It&;s not my politest response, but when someone is out here trying to mess up something, something many of us enjoy, for no discernable reason, well, I get put out.
I agree with all the points raised here, i don't like being overly vocal about negativity but since Amber herself as stated above has said that we should voice our concerns (even trough it DOES feel like we are being ignored but whatev) i may as well say so by cosigning on what Memoria said.
Just recently ventured over to Kumos to see what the changes would be like. The new shops and quests do take quite a bit of what I find fun about Subeta away, I enjoy zoning/jamming to music while doing my quests and find restocking to be mindless fun when I need a break, having both slashed to such an extent sucks.
[flower=Biscotti]
I'm starting to feel as if the Kumos quests and restocking is going nowhere.
When will the other legacy quest givers be added?
When will the other NPC shops be restocking?
When will we start seeing some of the promised benefits and interactions from earning reputation levels with quest givers?
When will discount cards be added to the Kumos restock system?
When will we be able to see if items are in our own shops with the option to remove one? I'm probably not the only one who just uses the legacy shop search when doing quests so I can be shown if a quest item is in one of my own shops.
My personal opinion is that it would be better to just transfer the legacy quests and NPC shop restock system to Kumos. The programming time saved could then be used to give us the Teahouse, the revamped gardens and the occasional plot.
[tot=Ciannwn]
Infinite quest glitch: Maleria finally got fixed for me a while ago but today Runway Ready got stuck in infinite mode.
All the quests continue to ask for repeats of the same few items. It continues to be annoying when they repeatedly ask for a relatively expensive item that we're only allowed to purchase one copy of per day. Even if the reward covers the cost adequately, it's just not satisfying and doesn't feel good. Even when the items are cheap, it's boring to keep getting asked for the same grungy belted boots or blueberry gummy lungs or whatever for three quests in a row.
Lots of the prize items are duplicated day after day too. It's especially noticeable with the books given by the Wizard. I'm not too upset about repeat books yet because I have 84 pets to read each one to, but eventually I'm just not going to need anymore copies. I just don't know why there isn't more variation in the items circulated by the Kumos quests... I've been chalking it up to just a test phase thing but hopefully the request and prize pools will expand eventually?
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We're at it again - Saggi keeps asking for Mystical Magical Elven Ring, which is over 600k in user shops. Since he no longer pays that kind of money, quests need to be cancelled. Even if the item was available in NPC shops, it would only last for 1 quest and I doubt, anybody would want to sacrifice their stash for a low payout. Wouldn't make sense.
I didn't realize the quest givers stopped paying out in numbers comparable to the requested item costs, so I lost about a million a few days ago. I agree that the requested items need to be adjusted to account for that issue.
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