it's so interesting to see how the userbases react in different sites. i left that neighbor pet site earlier this year after finally throwing the towel because there was virtually no communication, no plans and you could never even hope for transparency over there. we never knew (and probably still don't, i won't return to see) what the staff was doing, as Choco mentioned here a few posts back - think they were talking about the same place -.

coming here to play seriously and be a part of the community was kinda wild because, as little as the staff may be, they still talked about the bugs and issues, and explained how things are going in the posts. i mean, i have been discovering and understanding how programming works here when something goes wrong. on the other side it was like total silence and hey, here's a mobile game you won't ever care about! dedicated users always getting the short end of the stick.

about promises, yes, better not to hint at anything if it's not ready, on that I agree.

Ah, thank you.

Hey we got snowballs at least.

Coming back to say, briefly, that I love how my bringing up the MM items in another topic is/was considered "drama" here and now, but it was only ever meant as curiosity to the status. If I would have wanted to make it about the lack of communication, I would have stated so in the topic itself.

I'm starting to feel targeted without ever being mentioned by name. It's fun! Don't recommend.

Subeta is an old site.....that is on a decline. Not necessarily anything Subeta's doing but pet sites just arn't around like they were 20 years ago. You need to continue playing Subeta with lower/realistic expectations and it can be enjoyable again. Reevaluate what Subeta is to you. It is not realistic that Subeta will hire a full programming team and those lost promises are really just dreams of the past. Appreciate Subeta still being around. Not many games from 20 years ago have kept there Servers running. Finish that collection you never did, cap a pet, or release a CW. The skeleton crew pushes out the new content it can, but if you can't enjoy what's here you may have "beaten" the game and it may be time to start playing other games. As sad as that may be!

As I see it, both the complaint and the excuse are wanting.

The complaint: I buy CSC, so you owe me a Mysterious Melody.

The site is pretty specific about what CSC can be used for, and having the site bend to your beck and call is not on that list.

The defense: The site is a labor of love, and there's only one coder, so give them some slack.

Staffing issues justify slow development. They don't justify overpromising and vaporware. There shouldn't have been a promise in the news to open Mysterious Melody this year if the skeleton crew wasn't 100% committed to honoring that promise.

I think Sekhmet said it best:

I appreciate what the Subeta staff WANTS to do but I agree with many others that if something is not 95%+ ready to release they shouldn't mention it. If you mention so many things and then they never happen it reflects badly on the site.

But I do think despite what a lot of people seem to feel Subeta has pretty decent communication. Compare it to multiple other pet sites and honestly most companies in general. I'd say staff at Subeta updates and talks to users a lot more than most places. It's not perfect constant communication but it's way more than what most people do.

Since this seems to be the only topic about MM - where was it? Did I miss the news or announcement? Next year then maybe?

I don't think you missed anything. As far as I know it never happened. (And if it did, clearly I missed something too xD)

i just want to add to the void that we all probably stick around on this site because we love it. because it is nostalgic, it is enjoyable, and it's a good way to pass time. i am in school for computer science and i don't know much code, but i'm slowly learning, (and i do know SQL pretty well, although that probably wouldn't help much for building/migrating features). i would love to be able to volunteer time to help the site out in any way i could. i'm sure there are tons of artists, writers, etc. on this site (and probably other coders too!) that would be willing to volunteer time, if there were an opportunity. maybe that is an avenue that could be explored potentially for helping keep the site running. i know the site staff is really small and there isn't much budget room (or any at all) for actually hiring new people. but i love this site and i would hate for it to disappear due to lack of resources, especially when there is an active userbase who could help contribute resources in order to keep the site going.

EDIT: imagine if we had some writers and artists who could work with one staff member or two to build some plot events for the site! or if a coder with some knowledge could help update some of the broken code and help things get back up and running. there are so many opportunities where volunteers from the userbase could potentially help the site thrive, if there were an avenue for it.

wasn't there a big hullabaloo a year or two ago that they were choosing a normal site user that would be their new liaison, keeping the users regularly in the loop of what staff was doing and how things were going behind the scenes? and then it just... never happened? (or if it did - I swear I remember them announcing the winner - it sure doesn't seem to have stayed a thing for long). (edit: I have been corrected, thank you Saturnine)

I mean after 15 years you'd think I'd be used to the overpromising and then crickets. we all get it, you have a skeleton crew! so please be reasonable in what features and events you try and hype the users up for, or at least update us when things aren't gonna happen.

It happened, and their most recent post was a day ago!

https://subeta.net/forums.php/gotopost/66451985

It doesn't 100% mitigate the "There's an issue and no word from staff?" that happens because they're a middleman, not a programmer, but it did get done.

So the consensus is that the site is dead with no hope for return and all we can do is be grateful for every last second left?

Dead, no. We're still getting items, we're still getting our holidays, we're still getting new pet colors and events. The good thing about this site is that's it's still very much playable, and it's playable for free.

But there are a lot of ideas that aren't realistic to expect anymore, because the manpower and funds aren't there.

The glory days are indeed over, though. Not just for Subeta, but for a lot of petsites in the same niche. At least, it's still alive - a lot of other competing pet sites didn't have the same chance.

By working to be something else than a Neopets clone with games and restocking, with the quest aspect and holiday, Subeta made itself a niche and it managed to survive.

Dead - maybe not. But in limbo, certainly.

From a consumer's point of view, I'm not seeing any investment in rectifying the situation regarding lack of staff or new content, other than the obligatory holidays & necessary band-aids to the coding. The status quo reigns. There is no visible 1 year plan, 5 year plan, etc to increase users or engagement in general. Which is fine for people who just want to do the day to day stuff, but it's frankly boring and the attrition rate of users is growing from what I've personally seen, as people are tired of waiting for something to happen.

The more users that get bored & leave, the less revenue Subeta makes, and the harder it is to have financial resources to keep the site up & running, let alone make necessary improvements. It can only operate like this for so long until Kieth & co HAVE to re-invest in the site's future & or make the decision to turn off the lights.

This kinda sums up everything I'd want to say but is more coherent and well-written. I....really worry about this. A lot. But I guess also maybe I've gotten to the point of accepting pet sites are just a dying genre? Is there anything to invest in at this point?

This site is dying and it makes me sad to see. I didn't know that the staffing issues were that serious, but that doesn't excuse not having transparency because we are your customers. We may love and have nostalgia for this site, but we are still your customers, too. I haven't forgotten why the daily goal was added- so that we could see how we're helping the site every day.

But broken promises with no/little/extremely late explanations has gotten old. There hasn't even been survival this year and it's nearly the 17th of February. ppl have stopped interacting with each other on the forums, too. I tried for an entire year to bring back HA contests, but there were nowhere near as many ppl as there used to be. I wanted it to be fun and encouraging and yes, some ppl like it but dang this site is dead.

I mean it's not thriving like it used to be, or surviving like it was even five years ago. This site is pretty much dead and it makes me sad, but I guess when you don't really keep up with stuff/keep bringing new things it's bound to happen.

It was mostly fun at times, rare times ppl were fucking assholes on this site, but I'll still miss Subeta.

[edit] STARTING ON THE 21ST IS STILL LATE. Yes it used to begin around the 14th-16th but these past few years have seen it come later and later. Survival might start on the 21st of February and that does not change my point. There was an implied 'yet' in that sentence that I guess I should have typed anyway, one of the things I hate about online discourse -_-; . That it might start late does not make my point any less valid. Please be patient as I have a disability (well multiple but this one is in regards to typing) and may miss some words or misspell things. I try to be careful but things slip through the cracks.

I'm not angry at the staff, I'm resigned and sad. I know this site is only kept up by the few admins and the people who create CWs and those who want gold accounts. I'm not expecting things to be in tip-top shape, but transparency and explanations go a long way in keeping the trust. I'm also saying that don't make promises you cannot keep. I know you'd like to implement many things, but unless they are ready to go right then and there and can thus work out the bugs quickly, don't say it. Yes, we're customers, but we're also people that want to put and keep our trust in this site because we also love it. [/edit]

There was literally a news post a few days ago saying it'll start next Tuesday at the latest but okay.

That's still a problem. Events aren't happening on time. I don't know what you think the point you made was that I didn't already think about before you said it. I try to be succinct in my posts but with my disability it can be hard.