@/METROID They were made edible shortly after the first TS restock to make them more exclusive since the TS was a mistake. How do we drive the price back up? Make them edible apparently. I honestly have no idea if the BAs knew they became edible (seemed like an Amber and Ariel decision judging by the comments) but it had to be protected again regardless sooo.

[Edit] And yeah, it felt like my comment was pretty much glossed over. I only used it as example and it felt like that was the only part Staff focused on. I don't think the recent TS restock was a distraction, but the okay from BAs certainly seemed like a redirection.

no worries, I think I did get that acorn bomb from the last TS restock because I thought, eh, could use it in my armory and didn't think much on it. But I do understand what you mean. It goes beyond acorns. xD

The Panzer Hydra Gauntlet was REMOVED from being able to actually be won through battling to be added to the Fanciful Box while other items that could have gotten a rerelease were not put in. Way to reward people for 'hard work on battling'.

Plus the time limit not being a hard 24 hours was terrible.

Now we have to hope that we can get a chance at an item we want in one of these boxes when the BAs run a battle event, while navigating around people who already know the system down to icons and battling rhythm. Which is awesome that there are people who are good enough at battling to do that, admittedly, but these boxes don't get new people in OR encourage people to continue whereas more availability that wasn't poorly-timed loot boxes with artificial scarcity on some the items could have encouraged people to train their pets up to be able to eventually use the weapon even if they couldn't do so now.

Furthermore, the idea that battling is the same and that people getting into now have the same chances just isn't true. Things that used to be fifth drops are now achievement prizes, meaning you now get one, but the old battling hands had multiple copies they could sell extras of for sP to plough back into training and investments. Newer folx don't get that benefit. I've been told that Mystic Spindles and the points awarded used to be infinite play, so older players could rocket their intel upwards while new people are stuck with books and expensive intelligence boosters. At one point people were allowed to spend XP into intel points, at an expensive rate to be sure, but that's not available now. Heck, tiers didn't used to be a thing; get the right weapons and you didn't have to spend the time we do now along with the resources to level up a pet. That's what people will be competing against for new boxes. To protect people's investments (really?) and make it more 'fair'. It may do the former, but it certainly doesn't feel like it does the latter.

I don't want this to sound like I'm mad at the battling community, btw. I've met some absolutely lovely folks in it (plus a particularly nasty one, but they were the exception and it is what it is) and those old hands worked hard for their stuff, I just categorically disagree with how this was handled by the admins and their priorities. And I put my money where my mouth is, I canceled my subscription and I'm still really not sure about even getting a new one. Anhedonia from depression can let a lot of things ride, but this? This HURT.

I know, that Acorn Bomb was hyped in the beginning making me sorry, I didn't get one. Surprisingly I found one in my armory not too long ago. However, I looked up the stats yesterday and don't see, why there is so much turmoil about it. Stats are nowhere impressive, maybe it was different back then, but no need for any uproar now, esp. since people seem to want it as food more than weapon. Plus there were some in shops for a reasonable price anyway before the TS restock yesterday.

Yeah, get it, AB was only used as an example, still much ado about it.

There were no tiers but also no armory. Every pet had to personally hold their weapons. And apart from annoyance and time consumption every time you had to swap your weapons via inventory, you were risking them, because there were random events, that would steal items or your on hand money.

And we had to get to win 10 to earn the main loot. Which was a huge grind over days for pets that JUST weren't strong enough or didn't own the single (not many choices icon wise like today) good enough weapon for that opponent, only to fail at good last and the prized weapons were out of reach for ever - until yesterday ;-)

Take Malice - Top Prize for first Reading Drive. They sold it to us as THE ULTIMATE weapon. Not many could afford to buy it with their points. Come next Reading Drive, you could easily get 2 of the elusive Malices for the points it cost then. It's still good, but not like it was yped.

And the biggest let down became the legendaries.

Weapons today have great alternatives and the top items have been reliable for years now.

Good point, and there's definitely been some progress on overall usability for battling. The armory is invaluable. Still, though, tiers definitely changed things and (from the mention of people who didn't like it and left) specifically slowed down battling progress.

As for sP, yes, random events could take it. Bank interest also gave it. I was around before it was abolished and my bank interest took care of my Jim training needs easily and still would.

For holding weapons back then, could you equip more than one? Or use two copies of the same thing in battle?

EDIT: Whoops, I posted as you were editing.

Another thing there, though, with needing 10 wins, didn't XP used to go the other way? You got the bulk of it on the first win and then it went down? Now it's the other way.

SON OF EDIT:

Weapons have great alternatives. The number of scrolls going out and the methods to equip them don't. There is certainly give and take, but this is about more than just the battling aspect. Plus old hands get to use the new reliable cheaper stuff ALONG with having access to multiple copies and intel possibilities. It's not like only some people can use the new system, everyone gets to. Not everyone gets unlimited Mystic Spindles or earning multiple scrolls from General Error.

i've already posted my thoughts on the newspost but the tl;dr of it is that gatekeeping PvE content is weird and pointless, also it's really funny seeing some people get their knickers in a twist over old weapons reentering circulation (even if the method of reentry is deeply, deeply flawed) like battle weapons for PvE content are this protected category of items that must never be impeded on lmao

if your pet's stats are high enough to use a weapon, literally who cares if someone that's invested the time and money into training their pet can equip it if they can obtain it (even if it's in a way you dOn'T aPpRoVe Of). the complaining reminds me of elitist WoW players when blizzard implemented badge gear and all the angry neckbeards cried about WeLfArE ePiCs because blizzard made some gear... more accessible... to max level players, who may or may not have had the luck to get loot in raids or little time to raid due to real life obligations but could run a couple dungeons a day and rack up points on a weekly cap to save up and buy a gear piece. while this is obviously not a 1:1 comparison some of the remarks i've seen really reek of FYGM in regards to these weapons, and it literally does not affect you at ALL in the long term. oh noes, your digital item might become worth a smaller amount of virtual currency! that doesn't make it a crappier weapon or means it performs worse in the coliseum, it's still a good weapon and at the end of the day that's all that should really matter.

literally nobody is asking to be handed these weapons for free or little effort. i think a lot of us just want to be able to earn these items, by just playing the game, by battling in some way or another, be it as achievements from challengers or saving up battle tokens or something. i don't have all day to poopsock shop restocks or infinite money to flip CSC cards for sP but i do (usually) have time to do BQs and knock out a few challengers knowing i'll get there eventually in terms of raising my pet's stats. it's a little less exciting when i look at the forums for guidance for weapon sets when i rank up and see stuff recommended that just isn't obtainable anymore period or cost a ton of sP because the event where they dropped happened 6-10+ years ago when battling seemed impenetrable to me at those times and i didn't have any pets high enough to reasonably participate, so i go off to comb subetalodge for any viable alternatives to use in the meantime if i'm trying to beat a particularly challenging opponent for my tier level which in itself can be a time-consuming task.

and just because i have the subtlety of a sledgehammer i just feel like bringing up again that battling is PvE content, you can't fight other players' pets and you can't see another player's armory, and what weapons someone else has doesn't have any affect on YOUR pets or YOUR armory or YOUR ability to defeat opponents, only YOUR perceived value of an item that may not be as high as someone else's. just because YOU think an item is worth billions of sP and is the most valuable gelatin toenail on subeta (that you're not going to sell anyway because it's still a really good weapon that you regularly use), doesn't mean everyone else does. it's all in the eye of the beholder. ;)

also lootboxes just stink as a means of distribution but i feel like everyone's harped on that point already 😅

I'm going to argue that the loot boxes are a symptom, not the problem.

To certain battlers, 9bil doesn't seem like a lot, but to a lot of subetan players, 9bil is just unfathomable as a number in general, so the idea of dropping 9bil on a loot box for a weapon is just an automatic no go for a lot of people. And just having this as a concept shows how much of a money sink battling is. No, no one needs godly weapons to win, but when higher tier weapons scale so much in cost and weapons in general range so much in cost, then no, people are not going to want to sink money into that system. Because at present, it's a punishing system. I don't mean you should put an amount of sp and expect to get more sp back, training and battling are not meant to be profitable, but when perceived battle loot rewards are set up the way they are with events / prizes the way they are (and edit: and actually the pool of viable weapons in higher tiers is like a funnel cloud of options, decreasing with higher tiers to oblivion) then people are not going to feel rewarded for their efforts.

Battle quests are great and all, but at the end of the day, raising stats is only one part of the equation. You can't defeat higher tier enemies with budget weapons unless your pet is overpowered with stats (and seriously, where is the fun in overpowering to defeat an opponent? the fun lies in strategy which is sorely lacking because higher tiers don't have options due to unobtainable weapons). Having so many weapons, with added overlays in the wardrobe for added insult to injury, which range from expensive for the lay subetan or just downright unobtainable doesn't fill me with enthusiasm. I suppose I shouldn't be speaking for the average subetan, but that's the way I see these loot boxes being taken. People can argue that 9bil is budgeted compared to what it was in the past, but at the end of the day, you gotta realise what that sounds like ... 9bil .. for one weapon? And people say cws were elitist as hell due to inaccessibility .. well ... 9bil is in its solar system, heck it's left for another dimension. 9bil is the definition of coming across as elitist.

Not directing this toward the battling community or anyone in particular and not meaning to insult. I'm not even sure if I sound coherent at the end of this rant or not but it is what it is.

also ... to add ... I think the way weapons cost is basically an artificially timed gate. There's literally no nuance to knowing what icons to deal and which to block; it's actually pretty easy, what's made artificially hard is the lack of accessible weapons. But then, what I'd be proposing is too radical a change for a system so entrenched after over a decade. At the end of the day, for whatever reason, battling started off as "this is a thing that will be inherently expensive as hell" and because of that, it's had to maintain "this is a thing that will be expensive as hell" to not upstage investment. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe a decade and a half isn't too late to make radical changes, but I just don't see that happening. :l Not when a 9bil loot box is an option.

Something else I want to note, this precedent is worrying. What else is going to be removed from being earned? Are they going to take Shrieks off of Nightlady? I don't look at the loot boxes and go, 'yay, more chances!' Instead they fill me with dread that more things are going to be removed from direct relationship to being earned and put behind artificial scarcity and weird gates. And hey, that's just what I want out of my games after the horror that has been 2016 onwards, more uncertainty and stress!

As far as I recall even then were restrictions on certain weapons and you could only use one of them in your set.

And, yeah, you're right about XP. And definitely nada beyond win 10 - apart from bragging on the high score list ;-)

And, yeah, I was in the boat for hating tiers. By now I don't mind, somehow the regular ones are all at least T11 :-)

Fair enough, no dual-wielding godlies then. :p

The XP for beating an opponent after the 10th win does help, yes, but that is something old hands can use as well as new ones And for new boxes, newer players aren't just competing against each other.

oh, the XP beyond 10 is minute, but items and esp. special loot (tomes & amulets & crystals) are nice and an incentive.

But they aren't make-or-break for highest-level challenges and they aren't gated off to just newer people, so we're back to old hands getting opportunities others didn't and that being who the newer folks are competing with this for this 'fair chance'. Why they didn't just Millionaire Center sP sink things is baffling.

remove the stat cap, that’s the only solution

I am still so enraged by these boxes!!! Why could the weapons have been put in the MC with no time limit. It seems the same wealthy players who had the weapons to begin with, got the boxes.

I have spent 9 years getting my pets right up there, but I have ALWAYS been 2 steps behind the best battlers, so I was never able to earn the weapons from earlier plots, nor was I around to get the duplicates of the top weapons as loot drops or achievement prizes - before the reset and things were changed.

But I earned everything I own. BUT AND the weapons I own do the job, so I guess I should not be so upset

I really do hope that these boxes are not a thing again.

I did debate getting a box the 125 million one in the hope of a Tainted Keeper Skull Staff as its been on my WL since I first missed it. But they disapeared so quickly and what would the chances have been of getting that 1 item anyway.

We are not all multi millionaires on here.

Please staff do not do this again.

That’s exactly what happened lol. Now instead of 5 people having the top tier weapons, 5 people have multiple of the top tier weapons.

Did nothing for the price because they’re not going to sell them for less than the 15-30b it cost before the boxes came.

That’s exactly what happened lol. Now instead of 5 people having the top tier weapons, 5 people have multiple of the top tier weapons.

Did nothing for the price because they’re not going to sell them for less than the 15-30b it cost before the boxes came.

There's 40 boxes, that's 360 billion sP, no one is going to clear that stock on their own, multiple purchases will be rare, if any. Pretty sure most of the people who can afford it aren't even battlers at all. I posted about buying them because I thought it would be fun to share and that was apparently a mistake, but you're making some strong assomptions about who is buying what with no data to back it up. It's just hatred for the sake of hatred.

No one wants to gamble 9 billion on something and get a spare, trust me, so I'd expect non-owners or people with few of them to be the main people buying the boxes.

I'll sell you 2 godlies for box price, how about that? Put your money where your mouth is

Just gonna say we're not in this hobby to make money. xD I don't think we really make much off this stuff anyways, not with loot really. A lot of people are in the high tiers now from over the years, so a lot of the rare loot isn't rare as a result. And then we got bored and made multiple battle pets too. D:

That said, it is a barrier for newbies to get in and catch up. The plus side is there are a lot better things now than there used to be. BQs are no longer randomized to where you could start quest 1 and immediately get told to go beat up Prodigy. You could have a string of bad luck for opponents in BQs and make so little EXP then. But the downside is that yes, the old guard is still here mostly. So it's always going to be a lot of familiar faces at the top.

I liked that one Gelatin War where any tier could put in the work to get a core. That was fun to see! It was hard work that deserved the reward, and I want to see that come back again for future events. If that's something others would like, I'm down for it. Just want more people to join and have fun with us. ^^

i'd have been all up for a limited time thing at the MC. That would have been better.

Sure 2 kwands @ 9b each

That’s exactly what happened lol. Now instead of 5 people having the top tier weapons, 5 people have multiple of the top tier weapons.

Did nothing for the price because they’re not going to sell them for less than the 15-30b it cost before the boxes came.

Oh, but it wasn't about decreasing price or increasing availability. It was about 'protecting peoples' investments'. So mission accomplished. :/

That's why I'd rather just new weapons be made, since the older stuff is out of reach. But not release the new weapons in a terrible way like these boxes. Just let me beat something up.