Oh, okay! I wanted to make my stance clear, though, so it's no biggie. ^_^

I think you're right that batch sizes/availability is only one piece of the puzzle, but it is one of the few things that releasers can address themselves, vs systemic issues that need some kind of staff intervention. Only a releaser controls how many copies of any item comes on the market and how it does so, so even though this discussion is a bit cliché at this point, I still hope it's useful in some way.

I love how adamant you area about reaching that 'untapped market' that you mentioned, because I completely agree! There's so much hidden potential on subeta as far as integrating it into the site as a whole and introducing the community at large to CWs. (Off topic but...you're right about other parts of the site too! This site is so huge and confusing at times!)

You are, sadly, probably right about how some people will always be ready to complain if they aren't personally benefitting. One thing that has frustrated me the most about trying to educate people about CWs is that regardless of explanations about WHY CWs are rare and expensive, there's go no give on the other side. They usually couldn't care less about the reasoning behind the functionality of the current market, and continue to be grumpy about not being able to interact with CWs exactly the way that they want. :/ There will never be any give and take with this type of person, but I do hope that there are ways to make CWs friendlier to the average user. I'd love to discuss more ideas in this vein!

Yayyy, that's great!!! I think you're totally right, eventually MOST items start circulating at some point, if you're willing to be patient and and keep trying. I love your positive attitude!

Thank you for your kind words. ;_; I have to admit, I've been a bit frustrated by some of the negative comments on this thread that don't seem to take anything the releasers have said regarding why the release items in the numbers they do into account, but honestly I believe that everyone has a place at the table and should be able to vent their frustration. If there were releasers out there who, like me, mostly releasing items publicly for the fun of it, and maybe hadn't considered their batch sizes and how accessible their CWs are, I had hope that this discussion would get some wheels turning.

I'm sorry that some of the comments here have made you feel less willing to release publicly. :( That was the opposite of my intention! I was really hoping to foster some good ideas for making things MORE available and open. I don't want anyone to feel judged or attacked though, because ultimately how a releaser releases items should be 100% up to them, like I said. Spending anywhere from $10-$100 or maybe even more in some cases to get ONE ITEM on site? I think that's more than generous enough, and no user is entitled to the fruits of that expense except the person that made the expense.

I hope you can hang in there and find your enjoyment of CWs and the community again! hug

Thank you for your kind and patient explanation! :) I do agree, I hope there is less snapping, and more understanding going forward.

Also, I missed your previous reply! I hope you'll find the FAQ helpful, and obviously you're not totally in the dark about the process of buying CWs since you've already acquired several, but if you ever have any questions or anything my comments are always open. ^__^

I'm sorry you had that negative experience when trying to slot, unfortunately it can get annoying trying to parse out who's slotting for what groups at what time. Even if the post is labeled “pinged-only” if you don't know what that means or if you don't happen to notice the title of the post (it happens to me all the time!), mistakes can be made. I wish there was some way to make that sort of thing clearer!

Butting in again to say I hope you've had time to read through this thread a bit, there's been a lot of commentary about why releasers release the quantity of copies that they do. Knowing the thought process won't stop you from missing out on some items, or being disappointed at times, but I hope it will help take the edge off of the feeling that you're supposed to be able to have access to everything that gets released.

There will always be items that I miss out on, either because I wasn't online at the time of release, didn't have the CSC to afford it, or wasn't a part of the group that had access to it. Thankfully, most releasers are pretty chill if they're approached later with “hey, I loved X item! Do you have any spares or batch extras? If not, I'd love to pre-slot on future recolors of this if you're willing to do that!” Not everyone has the ability to manage pre-slots, and often there won't be any extras, but that is a way to show your SUPPORT of a releaser and a particular item in a positive way, which might help you gain access to similar items in the future. Unfortunately, as you and I have discussed before, people tend to react defensively when they suspect that you are complaining about them.

The whole reason why I started this thread was to learn about why releasers release the number of copies they do, and possibly get them to rethink their process to the benefit of users like you and others who get upset at not having access to every CW that they want. I don't know if any other releasers besides myself have read anything on this thread would inspire them to release more than they already do, but I fully believe that understanding one another and communicating in good faith is the best way to improve the relationship between releasers, buyers, and potential buyers.

Hey! Glad to have you in the conversation! ^^

Oof, you're right, CWs are just darn expensive and there's no way around that, currently. Your comments about feeling privileged to wear 10 different artists' items make my heart happy, that's so sweet! :D In that vein, the higher price of CWs and the exclusivity does make sense. CWs are special. I always feel a bit disappointed when CWs are discussed like a product that's totally divorced of the people that put their time and hearts into creating them, which includes both artists and the people that guide the artist/spend their time running a shop.

I haven't been very active in the reselling market, but based on yours and some other comments on here, it sounds like it's got a bit of dark cloud hanging over it as of late. :( That along with some of the other negative things you mentioned, I could really see how that could turn off an outsider. People tend to remember their negative experiences more than their good ones, and especially if they have no real positive experiences to challenge their perspective. I don't know exactly how to change this, but finding ways to portray CWs positively is maybe a good place to start!

Thank you for bringing your experience to the thread!

there definitely is a way to make it clearer but it puts a lot of burden on the releasers who are already working pretty hard for an often dubious return.

Some releasers seem to have the knack of making a profit and fund themselves buying a lot of additional CWs through their activity. Others don't and end up spending a ton of money. I'm not sure if there's really any general fix that the community can do.

There's also the fact that the true point of CWs is to make money for the site to keep it going. I think it might help for those who don't buy CWs or CSC to keep in mind that they are benefiting from the entire site that is supported by those who spend money on it. There are always a ton of new sP and event items going in that don't cost you anything but play currency :D

So balancing the goals of players to spend less of their real money yet get the items they want, with the goal of the game to make enough to pay the developers and artists that work for it and keep the servers running, is a very difficult one. It's not perfect but it's still working after more than a decade and that's saying something very good about it. Keep all the positives like that in mind!

Even so, long time releasers who do make profit from it probably have the greatest responsibility to the community to keep it growing, which means being kind and not hostile to those new to the community and not aware of its practices and norms. They already work very hard but they also benefit more than anyone else, which is what leads to that responsibility.

Very well said all around! :) I wish everyone was an clear-sighted and level-headed as you!

The main reason I do not advertise this is because I used to once upon a time when I first got into cws. But people abused the system. They would ask to get pre-slotted, then they'd flake out. They would either never have the funds to pay in a timely manner and I would end up having to cover their slot then hold the item for a while before they picked it up. Or they would never pay and ignore any contact I tried to make with them. Then when I replaced them with someone else on the drop list, they'd suddenly re-appear and then get mad because I sold the item. So it gradually morphed into a few users being able to do this. Lyonesse because I noticed that she was always there to slot on the dresses whenever they came up and when she told me her plan to own them all, I felt like the least I could do was oblige her. Currently this option is really open to those I trust (like frequent buyers) because I've been burned by others too much to let this be a thing.

And my WL is FULL of cws I missed out on due to work/personal issues. But they are pixels in the end. Nothing to get upset about because I missed slotting on them and not worth shelling out 2k csc for. But that's my take on it.

Ahhhh, well I'm sorry to hear that! I totally understand not wanting to offer the privilege at large after being burned by other users in the past. It is an extra step to take care of already, and people leaving you hanging isn't worth the hassle!

I'm glad to see how active this discussion is on both sides! A couple of thoughts to sprinkle in as disclaimer, an infrequent buyer and not a seller.

1. I wish there were a more central slotting system - somewhere that I could see all items currently being slotted on. Of course, would ideally have the functionality to be limited to being visible to only certain users or forum groups or something like that as needed.

I think the new-ish CW shop interface in the cash shop has definitely been a good thing. The fundamental problem, though, is still that it seems the vast majority of CW selling occurs via the slotting process. This takes place on the forums where it's really hard to keep track of, especially as a newbie! There are so many threads to keep up with and not infrequently, the newest item for sale is not in the first post but instead a pinged post somewhere later in the thread. This means that I have to go to the last page and then probably have to backtrack since the last page (or 2 or 3) are actually posts of people claiming a slot while I dig for the post with the actual item. A minor point, I know, but may be off-putting to new members who don't know otherwise. I do have a couple groups that I'm part of that makes this less of an issue, but again, so many threads! And I would like to branch out sometimes but it can be less than easy.

2. I wish so badly for a functioning forum search. Not solely for CWs but would also help!

I used to use this for Subeta items that I was looking for as well. With a forum search, I can occasionally more easily see if people are selling that item (if they're doing a sale of just a few items). More importantly, I get a sense of what price this item has gone for in the past and see previous discussions. For example, if I see in a previous discussion about this item that it's private or has sold for 3000+ or what have you, I am now much more educated about the market around this item! And I can prepare funds accordingly, take it off my WL, etc. Would also help some of our members with more anxiety since they don't have to ask/interact with someone to find out this information.

3. Less of a tech systems issue, but as previously mentioned, the resale market can make things...difficult.

There's a chunk of CWs that seem like they can only be obtained via "trade only." Honestly, this makes me tempted to just slot on what seem like desirable items to hold onto for this purpose because it's hard to tell what CW will fall under "trade only." Maybe I'll find a CW I really like later, but it's "trade only." Oh boy, hope I managed to hoard some other item with this "trade only" status to possibly offer. And this may exacerbate the problem of people slotting on limited batches for popular items that they only want for this kind of resale value. I don't actually participate in this kind of slotting because with my limited funds, I try to only slot on things I really like and will likely keep, but it can definitely be daunting/challenging. I don't have any great ideas for a fix for this but just wanted to add some outside perspective.

Whew, a bit long-winded but hopefully it made sense!

So happy to have your voice in here, thank you for taking the time to write up such a thoughtful post. :)

Slotting is definitely...a mess. Everyone has their own method and everyone's shops look very different and you're right, sometimes they're not set up in the most straightforward way. I'm definitely guilty of forgetting to update my first post sometimes, and I usually don't keep slots on the first post anymore either. Running a CW shop thread allows for a lot of personal freedom, but I admit that doesn't always translate well to buyers' needs.

On one hand, taking slots is pretty necessary because most CW releasers wouldn't be able to afford to submit their items without other users chipping in payment. But it's clear that slotting is one of the most confusing aspects of getting into CWs from outsider perspective. I'm not really sure what could be done from a systemic point of view, outside of a massive overhaul to how CWs are submitted to the site - but maybe individual CW releasers like myself can be more aware of how user-friendly their process is.

As for finding things, I assume you've found the big umbrella groups like CustomWear and CWfill, yes? If not, those are sooo helpful for finding new releases. I'll just link this handy dandy FAQ that has a bunch of links on the first page: click! Forum search would also be so useful to have again, too!

As for the resell forums....oof. I'm not an active reseller and I don't buy many cws secondhand, either, so I really wasn't aware of a lot of the problems on the r200 forums before making this thread. But it sounds like there's definitely a lot. :| Many releasers and buyers alike on this thread have expressed a negative opinion toward current resale culture, but other than flooding the market with copies to make items less valuable (also not something either releasers or buyers want), I'm not sure there's any solution here, either. Ideally, resellers wouldn't try to sell for more than what they paid, but there's really no way to enforce that.

Just for anyone who wanders in - with 's reminder, I have updated the Updated New Buyers Guide to CWs and included more screenshots in the slotting/CW shops post and the FAQ post.

Please feel free to post there if there's something you feel I didn't cover that should be added to one of the posts or to the FAQ!

~ Hi! I just read your first post (have not read through the thread, yet). I'm lucky if I can get 3-4 people to slot on my items these days. I was under the impression, and I think this is from a couple of years ago, that buyers prefer to buy items that only have a limited number of copies released (not myself, I do not care except if I miss something cool because of batch limits, but I can hope to find copies that people sell later on!) so I started to do limited releases. Before that I did unlimited all the time. I keep thinking I should go back to unlimited... but would anyone slot on my items at all? lol Do people still prefer batch limits? I actually had more interest in my items when I first entered the cw market as a seller of commissioned art several years ago. So it seems over the years interest in cw's has waned a bit? Thank you for posting this (going back to read through) Jules

Hey, thanks for popping in! There's been a lot of really interesting discussion, so I hope you have the time to read through some (I apologize - it's a LOT! XD)

A lot of people that commented in this thread seemed to confirm what you suspected - that buyers tend to prefer limited batches. This seems mostly related to making sure that items hold their value well enough that if someone decides to sell later on, they can still get most of their CSC back. I do think interest has waned a bit in general, the market is not as active anymore sadly.