@ Wolfism 🙏 Thank you for not reaming me about it. If you want, I can report back on the ticket when it gets answered just in case it is against the rules?

Offtopic & hidden because monster post related to non-unique petnames

Quote by Sopheroo

Nicknames aren&;t going to stop people refreshing to get the original name, so it doesn&;t solve much on the actual problem, which is name clearings breaking the site on days where something desirable clears.</p>
<p>The site&;s health is more important than my pet having unique names. It stings, I hate thinking about it, but it&;s true - it&;s a sacrifice that, at this point, we should make if we want to do away with something that&;s not great on the servers. The era of yearly clearings is over, we had to change our ways to think about pet names, why not move away from unique per names altogether?</p>
<p>The best solution for the database is non-unique names. We already have a unique identifier - it&;s pet ID.

I was wondering when non-unique names would pop up in the topic and ngl I am tired of beating the horse that are unique and non-unique petnames. At this point, I want them to be non-unique just to get it over with. :P Everyone gets their cake! If your tummy hurts after you eat it all, don't say you weren't warned. If you don't feel like working on your characters even after you get the perfect names you've always wanted? Hate to say people called it, but... theycalledit.

All that aside, here's my seven cents on non-unique petnames after all the hubbub in the previous topics, and time to steep on the whole thing: [ol]

I would like to know if pets, petnames and name clearings are actually as taxing on the site as we're all assuming they are. Moar info from staff on this please!

I would like to know if switching to ID identifiers will make it possible to create petnames with special characters & apostrophes in them, significantly expanding the name pool.

I would like everyone to be compensated in some way if we switch to non-unique names (there will be hellfire and brimstone if this doesn't happen. I've prepped and stocked my fireproof shelter, I suggest others do the same)

I would like the Original Owners of a particular name (ex. Judyth) to have some sort of legacy marking to show that this is the OG Judyth. The Original. The First One Ever Made. The Big Cheese. The Head Honcho. All them other Judyths? They're cool, but this one is super unique because she's the first ever, she is mine, and she was here before all the names were made available for everyone. Also applies to original names that are created after non-unique names go live. You're the first person to own the pet PinkLasagna? That pet profile will say so!

I would like ID resurrection for a meaty amount of CSC. Once names are non-unique, IDs and legacy/OG names become the big, drool-worthy thing for anyone who likes to make themselves feel good by having super unique things. No judging. Only money for Subeta.

More. Pet. Slots. With a price cut & free slots to entice the pet people into getting all the nice shiny things. One does not simply make names free-for-all while keeping petslots limited & pricy. If I have the possibility to own my OCs by name, I want to be able to pay (sp or csc, idc) to have all 200+ of them on site. Every. Single. One of them. ◉_◉

I would like renames & nameswaps to either be free, low-CSC or sP-only after non-unique petnames are implemented (hi , I see u bringin something similar up in your post!). I can hands down guarantee you that people will be pissed to hell and back if this option happens without some kind of compensation beforehand.

[/ol] BUT. Above all else. I would like a change that big to be polled and discussed with the userbase, if it's even being considered. The potential fallout & outcome of this scenario needs to be gauged, and whether it's even financially viable or not. Whether the servers can even handle something like this in the first few weeks of implementation, or if we were all discussing it in vain b/c the site can't possibly handle that kind of traffic & demand. Either it kills the site by making many of the old users unhappy enough to leave, or it makes the site more interesting and appealing for people with a googolplex of characters.

tl;dr on non-unique petnames: gauge, discuss & balance first.

Yes to implementing nicknames to potentially test the waters, then have a poll on non-unique names after, and then discuss, gauge, balance, tweak.

Sure! Hmu me with them facts once you get them homie I don't mind. :)

The nickname idea is cool if we can't get anything else, but I would really prefer to switch to non-unique names altogether. From a game design perspective, our name system is a relic despite having the infrastructure to change it (IDs). I think it'd greatly increase user retention and activity. I can't speak for other longtime users but I personally don't care if other people get to have names that I "worked hard for" (aka had the privilege to be home the day they cleared and my F5-mashing hit the server before anyone else)

At least I hope the staff considers it if the site continues to decline.

Hello! I understand that you can't tell users about ALL of the things, but I still want to thank you for answering what you feel is safe to answer. It helps put things into perspective and calms people down, especially with potential hot topics like petnames.

Glad to know that the name clearings shouldn't make the site chug any more! 🙌 I imagine pets themselves are still somewhat chunky for the servers though.

I want to say I've asked you about the petname and apostrophe situation already ages ago on a separate topic involving scootles or something? I think it was in the bugs forum. 😬 Been a while, but the explanation here is still appreciated!

Even in a hypothetical scenario where IDs were used for everything and pet names were non-unique, there would be limits on which characters/symbols you could use for the petnames, correct?

I am all for non-unique names/nicknames for most of the reasons already stated.

Is there any ways to ban Autorefreshers from being used for name clearings? (which let's be real here, is used by most people to get names and is totally an unfair advantage)

Using ARs is basically ddossing the site and should be a warnable offence. It's unfair to users who want to get names the legit way. It gives an advantage to users with faster internet speed and computers

I don't think making the server able to handle what is the equivalent of a DDoS attack is a good way to fix the problem. I know cloudflare offers ddos protection, could something like that be used to ban ARs?

Yup, because the naming restrictions don't actually have to do with whether they are unique or not.

It's not the equivalent of a real DDoS. It's far, far less than an actual DDoS attack and it's within what our servers should reasonably be able to handle. We do have DDoS protection from Cloudflare.

We agree that ARs are unfair. It's very difficult to prove that somebody used an AR in this kind of situation. It's not what you were thinking, but I actually just got an idea that could solve this. However, I'm afraid I'm starting to derail this topic, so let's drop it here, but I will definitely discuss this with the other staff.

Apostrophes might cause a Bobby Tables issue without proper input sanitization.

im just gonna +1 this tbh )': non-unique names really seems like the way to go since the unique name system seems incredibly outdated in the current age of pet sites/etc. having to do clearings sucks, whether you get the name or not.. its just not fun lmao. some people even have to get up at like 3-4am for clearings because of timezones and THAT EXTRA SUCKS. for new users & old, it just seems like the better option and boy do i wish it'd be considered cries

ARs are against the rules anyway but yeah if we're talking about unfair advantages in clearings, it's unfairness all the way down. Some users have advantages over others by having that time free, by having a superior internet connection, by having friends available to help (that's a huge advantage and one I've never personally had), and so on. But in the end it's down to whoever's request hits the server first. The only way to remove all unfair advantages is by not having clearings at all. It's just one of many reasons why I strongly support non-unique names.

Are there cooldowns in place to stop people from refreshing incessantly? Because that would probably be a start if that's the main issue. You get 2-3 attempts at the same name and then get blocked from trying it again for 15 minutes, sort of like when you over-refresh at BHH. Maybe even randomize the clearing time so it's more luck based, because if we really have 50 people engaging in a scheduled refresh battle that's already pretty much luck based.

Of course I say this as someone who isn't super big on chasing specific names. If I find out a name I want is taken, I move on and look for something else. o/ I'd like my pet names to stay unique, but I'm mostly watching this debate from the outside.

On another note, whenever someone mentions that Flight Rising has non-unique names I just want to point out that afaik FR's game design necessitates non-unique names. The whole thing is about hatching as many dragons as you can, and there's such a high turnover rate that it would completely break down if you could only use each name once. There would be no names left after a while.

Subeta has 440k pets right now; Flight Rising appears to have over 50 million.

I have to agree with the person who said you can actually give your pet any name you want on their profile and in their story, as long as their “real” name is somewhere on the page. The fact that we can do that seems pretty great, without having to totally alter the unique name thing that is a big plus for a lot of people.

I’d be down with mixing up the clearing time to make it more fair for others, even though the current time is perfect for me. It means I’d miss out sometimes, but it seems reasonable.

Also, in response to the comments about asking for pets...I have received pets because I asked their previous owners if they would kindly consider me, in case they ever decided to adopt out. And I’ve given away several pets after receiving similar polite messages. So, I guess it’s just a matter of perception.

Honestly, I don't know how much of an issue unique names are. I don't think subeta is growing fast enough that it is a critical issue that we "must" fix right now. I am fine with the idea of pet nicknames that you can see in quotations on their profile with their real name visible, seeing the nickname used around the site like when you feed them, etc. though. I don't think comparing to other pet sites is also a very good comparison, as subeta is on an older, more neopets-type model whereas a lot of other popular websites seems to be in more of the "breedables/adoptables" territory from what I've seen?

As for clearings... Honestly, whether or not you 'get' the pet is completely random. How many friends you have, if you have an autorefresher going, etc... All that really does is making you feel better. It makes you feel supported. I don't really think any of it 'actually' increases your chance to get a pet unless you aren't able to get on or your internet connection is basically nonexistant; there isn't much difference between an autorefresher and hitting 'create pet' or hitting F5, IMO. I think someone had it figured out that when you make a pet, the creation comes in two phases and if multiple people are trying to get that pet, it's ultimately all luck. I've also had pet clearings where I "nabbed" a name several minutes after the clearing (like with Robert, if memory serves...).

The current system of clearings is also quite good. Before the daily clearings, it was REALLY hit or miss - there could be a day chosen maybe once or twice a year - if that - and the whole site was a huge mess as accounts were getting deleted, and it wasn't really... clear if an account was gonna get deleted or not if you couldn't see their Last Seen, if I remember correctly. How pet & user names are cleared now is honestly a lot more healthy for the site, the site's stability, and also returning users imho.

As for the issue of "begging," I think there is a difference between feeling entitled and being persistent and asking for a pet, compared to asking for someone to let you know if they ever adopt out or rename a pet. I've had many people ask me about my pet names before - should I ever rehome/rename/whatever - and honestly, I'm fine with it. I know a lot of other people that are okay with it, too. I remember when I first got Belle, I literately had like seven people smail me in case I renamed her on anything the first week I had her.

In regards to some of the comments... Having clearings on a consistent basis also makes it easier for people to plan around a clearing, regardless of your timezone - the only issue with now is the error that can cause a pet name to clear a day early or late, which makes it harder to plan around. If it wasn't consistent, I think it'd really suck because "oh yeah, it was gonna clear at 8am or 5pm" etc subeta time instead of just one, consistent, time.

But as for making new pets... I don't think the website is "starting to run out of good names." I often find nice names on pets that are inactive (some for years), nonexistent, or about to clear soon. Being able to put spaces into pet names helps quite a bit, too. But of my more recent pets, I had like 0 competition for Sona, Robert, Keyleth, Asherah, and Ilana as most were already open... Sona and Robert were the only "clearing" names and I got Robert a few minutes after and Sona an hour or something after I think? I don't remember.

@ Bug Aha, thank you for explaining! Now that I've had time to sleep and refuel, something else related to the naming crossed my mind.

Hypothetically, if nicknames were implemented, they would also be limited in the characters you can use for the same reasons listed above, yes? Because the nickname would not be just on the pet's profile page, it would be (if I got the suggestion right) sitewide for the pet's owner (training center, feed to/read to, games, active pet, plots that involve your active pet doing stuff, dropdowns, etc.) So you could have John, Andy or Madeleine as a pet nickname, but not (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:･ﾟ✧ Glitter Queen ✧ﾟ･: *ヽ(◕ヮ◕ヽ), right?

@ frederick Thanks for the laugh! And for teaching me a little something about coding. x)

Nnnnope, would not like this.

Just because a time is randomized doesn't mean that people would refresh less, or try less hard to get the name they feel they should have. All it would do is further inconvenience people who might try to get the name, but don't want to stay up until 5AM (or whenever the new clearing time would be randomized to), while favoring people with tons of friends in various timezones who can help them get the name.

3PM is fine. It's what the userbase is currently used to, it's when everyone expects it to happen regardless of the timezone they're in. I'd rather see the page throw an error if you refresh too many times in too short of a time period instead of messing with the time of the clearings.

[edit]Also RE: "ermahgerd, but the pool of good names is getting smaller!" Can people please not with this fearmongering?

I renamed my pet Kasandra into something else in... I want to say June last year. The name was available until recently (I wanna say ~2 weeks ago), when I picked it up again. Even though a popular video game came out with the main character's name being Kassandra (AC Odyssey), the name was not picked up by anyone in the span of ~7 months. Two nice RN variations that I used to own but put back into the pool are also available, and were available for over a year now.

So no, the name pool is not "small and bad and quickly becoming Neopets". People are just picky. :P

back when a thread of this nature was posted i was super adamant against the idea of nicknames. like a lot of you, i worked really hard for the names that i have. but like... if a nickname system allows us to keep our original names as well... i suppose i’d be fine with it. there’s a lot of names out there i missed in clearings and would finally be able to get, myself lol.

i already said so in the last thread about pet names but i am 1000% on board with non-unique names and honestly think the benefits of that system would outweigh the cons q v q

HOWEVER, since i know that would upset a lot of people, i reckon nicknames are a good solution~

i posted this on another thread, but this is what i think it could look like maybe

i think it could be like, urls will stay the way they are, using the pet's real name and being unique, but everything else on site would use the nickname! for instance, if i had the nickname marie attached to my pet sunflower and i posted (pet=sunflower), the name under the thumbnail would be marie but the url would still be pets/sunflower

i also support charging sp/csc to attach nicknames :>

as far as some of the arguments on this thread (i'm using a trackpad and can't be assed to quote people i'm sorry orz), i think the "but i don't want to see 5794720 pets with the same name" is kinda... weak? like idk man, i have literally never seen anyone on any other pet/character site complaining about that haha

and i also saw someone else posting about how non-unique/nicknames would make apps obsolete but tbh that sound like a dream to me because i proper hate pet site app culture l m ao

@/past @/Bug My only thoughts on trying to regulate ARs is that there's probably a decent chance for users that are playing legitimately to be punished. For example, I can complete individual quests VERY quickly. There have been times that I got an error message when buying from user shops saying something about there being a 1 second cooldown between purchases (although I don't know exactly what it said, bc fast). I'm able to do this because of keyboard shortcuts that are attached to hotkeys on my Cintiq, which I sometimes use to browse the site. In short, I worry about being punished for "automated activity" even when I'm definitely playing legitimately, which is one of the big reasons I no longer play Neopets, as this was a huge problem during certain events.

---

And to stay on topic, I'm going to have to say that I don't support non-unique names. Personally, I'm not the type to obsess about specific names or try for ones that are clearing, but I do love the "hunt" for names that fit the character that I'm developing. I love going to the adoption center and seeing a name that I suddenly click with, or seeing a name on an adoption board that's perfect for a character and then often having to commit to plans for it. That isn't to say that these same experiences couldn't happen with non-unique names, but, personally, the fact that I have to search for a name, rather than being able to pick any name that I want, is part of the fun. It gives me a goal to work towards and there have been quite a few characters of mine that have developed purely from a name I found that I never would have thought to use myself. Applying for names I really wanted from an adoption board also essentially forced to me interact with other users more often and has made me a lot more comfortable posting on the forums, which could also help newer users push out of their shells as well.

[edit]I GOT DISTRACTED AHHH, I didn't even address the topic of nicknames 😭 I'm TOTALLY in favor of the nicknames system, especially like the image that Thespian did above!

I am definitely all for nicknames. I think they'd be a good compromise.

In the past, I owned a pet that I didn't have a solid character for. I adopted him out but ended up wishing I hadn't, because I did love the name and it was impossible to get the name back without either the new owner going inactive or deciding to get rid of him and choosing me as the new owner. Since then, I've been hesitant to adopt out pets for fear of later regretting it. I think that being able to have an official nickname onsite (rather than only something you can add with CSS to the profiles themselves) would help a lot with that feeling, personally.

I pretty much agree with everything that said, and especially appreciate what they said about fanpets.

@ Wolfism @ soren idk who else to ping, but I got word back from the ticket regarding asking someone for a pet.

Asking a user for their pet is against the rules and falls under the begging rule. Users should not be contacting, pinging or otherwise asking other users for their pets. Not even for asking someone to ping you if they put their pet UFA.

Screencap of the ticket

[edit]To clarify because my words were full of suck: you own the pet and put the pet UFA - apps, questions, comments & pings are fine you own the pet but you have not put it UFA - apps, questions, comments & pings are not fine

Oh well. For those of us who did it anyway, the users we contacted or otherwise asked had no problem with it. If they really want to go out of their way and report it, then they can. All this says is that the act is reportable and against the rules, but if no one is being constantly pestered or bothered, then they probably just block instead of report. Idk what else to say here. This isn't really going to stop people from asking anyway. Pet applications are just a glorified way of begging but I don't see that going away anytime soon. I mean, how can you apply for a pet someone has for adoption without pinging them? Thanks for the info anyhow but I just don't agree. If the rule was more enforced or if there was actually a "begging" problem, I'd be more inclined to care. Again, I'm sorry if you were ever harassed for a pet though. I'm just tired of "if I cant have it, no one can therefore it needs to be for everyone" mentality. Its whats currently happening on neopets and I really don't want subeta to start going that route. Its one of the main reasons I'm grateful we have name purges at all.