Oh, a lot of people were upset with the bouquets! D: I had a decent stash of flowers that I sold and traded in for coins before they were introduced, so it was a matter of poor timing with releasing that feature. At least it'll probably be back next year, and it's been rumored it'll have more options to get flowers for the bouquets. Still, I feel you. Dropped out of the blue and it kind of made people shy away from giving away flowers because what if you need 'em for a bouquet next year.

5 for basic, 10 for GAs would seem a little better to me? I know I've had days when I got barely 2 or 3 retired items from quests during holidays. And if I remember right, they only really do it near the end of that particular holiday to avoid flooding the market?

wait is this in addition to the other quests giving items guaranteed or instead of? 5/10 extra items sounds like a bit much if it's in addition to.

I think other quests have a chance to give out retired items toward the end of a holiday, it's not guaranteed. Sarah's would be guaranteed with this tweak.

That aside, I also like this suggestion from the topic I've linked to in the OP!

I already said this on the other thread but... I don't understand why Sarah can't just work like all the other quests. Then there's no loopholes and everyone is happy =/

Yeah they do, but I'm saying if this is changed so Sarah would 100% give out retired items - if other quests still gave them out, she shouldn't have too many extra quests. If other quests didn't, she could have more. It depends how many items they want going out though.

I can imagine if that idea were implemented ('s idea) it would cause bug reports unless extra text were added, but if so it would seem like a feature that's only being kept around for an achievement and that just doesn't look polished. If we're going to keep a feature around for an achievement, actually give it some additional purpose.

in-between the loopholes closing and an actual resolution (either opening them to everyone all the time or during select events like quest-a-thons or removing the restriction or whatever), i think it'd be nice if her limit was raised to 700k/750k so the gap between her and saggi isn't so large

retiring the achievements just gives me a bad feeling lmao, i'm still mad i missed out on the cursed title and computer quests

Ah, true, but I think River's idea more or less covers everything that presents an issue if the exploits are patched up. Sarah's quests would still count for the quest-a-thon, you'd still have some incentive to do them (QPs), staff wouldn't need to retire the achievements, and if need be, she could always give out some items specific to her quest. Maybe let her be a weekend quest, give her a low chance to give out an out-of-season quest shop item instead of going with the retired holiday item route?

Alternatively, have her give out a little bit of holiday currency during respective holidays. Per completed quest, one to two candy hearts, trinkets, vesnali coins or new year's tokens, depending on the holiday and how rare staff wants to keep some currencies. Or Vesnali flowers/memorial flowers during those holidays.

I think that just seems too unfinished for the majority of the year when there isn't a holiday. We have currencies obtainable through the bathhouse and the normal way, I don't think we need another way to get currencies. idk, giving Sarah too many special features will just devalue the special features if they're left up all year. Either make her a quest that's only available at certain times or make her a regular quest with normal rewards (but worse than hers are now). Maybe rebalance the other quests to account for the extra quest a bit, shave 1-2k off each quest or something. not enough to really be too noticeable but enough that it'll add up

Also true. :/ Hmm. I still like the idea of having her during Survival only, but with the biting, infections, skins and candy hearts, that really is a bit much for one holiday. Compare it to to something like Masquerade where we have dancing and... that's it. Vesnali has flowers, and bouquets are most likely going to be a returning feature.

If we're going to keep her quests but remove the limit, I'd like her to be a little different than an unrestricted "insert items, obtain currency" deal. We have enough of those quests as is.

Yes, I imagine once you hit this amount she would tell you something about you being too wealthy now and she can't afford to give you anything else. You can still do the quest, but why don't you go try Saggi since you are so rich now?

We wouldn't be keeping it around just for achievements. We are keeping it around for the new people (original intention), but with the ability to get the achievements from it as well. You can make too much in less than 15 quests, so if we weren't having to hide money to get the achievements, no one on the site would have them all. I don't see needing to give it an additional purpose. The point is we would be allowing to keep doing the quests without actually encouraging it.

Does Sarah count the sP in your shop till?

Response from for anyone who isn't aware of the other thread.

Well, that'll be disappointing for anyone who returns after a hiatus and finds out that they can't get her achievements. :/

Thanks for that info. It's a giant bummer that they're doing that.

I couldn't even do Sarah's quests after a week of being a newbie. Her achievements are perpetually unobtainable for me. I'd have to spend every bit I'm saving trying to get the Richest User achievement (another nearly impossible task). I wish they'd just take one of the many suggestions offered here (make them with no restrictions or disallow sP rewards for folks who were over a certain limit.

Okay so I'm adding this here, but this is a bit different of an idea than what's going on here, it simply pertains to Sarah's quests and I understand this is an amazing amount of re-coding so I'm not sure it would be possible or anything but told me I should post it anyways.

My idea is to have Sarah's Quests changed entirely. Make them more like Shinwa. EX: Sarah asks you to do a quest for Pete, but she gives you a tutorial on how to go about doing that. (Click here, buy these items from usershops, turn them in here...etc) When you return to Sarah she then thanks you, and gives you an item (uncommon or common) and gives you information ABOUT that item. So for example "You did a great job finishing that quest! Here is an extra reward!" And let's say she gives you a food item. "This is a food item! If you go to your inventory and click on it, you can feed it to your pets! Feeding your pets is a way to make them eligible for battle, and there are also achievements for feeding certain amounts of unique food items to your pet!" etc. That way she's actually being used like a tutorial. She could still give out QP (however many she already gives out) and maybe sP BUT Her sP limit restriction would be removed and she is ONLY accessible for people under 30 days old like announced before. You could also give her a certain number that are tutorials (like let's say 20 total that are official tutorials) and at the end she gives a newbie pack or something like it (maybe like 10 csc, 20 wiz tokens, 100k, etc) and then newbies can still play her after until the time limit for those extra item rewards, just to get them started with things like collections / wardrobe / etc but she no longer displays tutorial language (maybe it is toggleable?).

ANYWAYS YEAH I know this is probably a coding nightmare but yep idk. IDK. Sorry lmao

I think this is a good idea/compromise.

Also I hope doesn't mind the ping here, I know you were involved in this discussion before regarding Sarah and how to fix/improve/implement her in a way that is useful to new players and such. (see the post right above mine)

Thanks for the ping, but there's no need to ping staff to suggestions&ideas forums as we stalk these regularly haha.

If we restrict Sarah's quests to new users, I imagine we'd probably retire the achievements too, I mean we'd want to be reasonable about it. That's not official btw, just my thoughts. I'm not someone who has any control over these decisions tbh, so yeah.

It'd be disappointing to see the achievements retired because I've never wanted to use any of the loopholes since I never felt like it was the right thing to do to get them, and I've always had more sP than her limit. By retiring them and closing up the loopholes, it looks like doing the "wrong" thing would have been the way to go. I don't care all that much about achievements, but it's kinda the principle of the thing.

Honestly, make only one or the other of Sarah OR Saggi count.

Don't count both. If you completed all of your Sarah quests, none of your Saggi quests will count, if you completed all of your Saggi quests, your Sarah quests won't count for the Quest-a-Thon total

I also like Jensen's idea. Make Sarah's quests accessible to people who have 750K or less.

I don't like the idea of restricting her quests to people with young accounts, and while I wouldn't mind her gimmick being removed, it would be Another Generic Questgiver(TM) and we have too much of these already

It's a really sweet idea, but I think it's probably too much work. :/ That, and it's still following the 30-day limit idea from Keith, which would shaft older users, shy newbies/people who don't speak English well, people who only decided they want to gather achievements once they figured the site out, users who played fair and didn't abuse loopholes, and people that took an unexpected hiatus. That's a lot of people.

I'd rather keep it fair for everyone across the board, which is why I really don't like the idea of the 30-day limit.

I like the either-or idea, but unless it's explicitly and clearly made against the rules that you can't do both (which is a shitty move for a do-EVERYTHING-you-can group effort event, IMO), you know that users would absolutely find a way to go the whole hog to try and get both Sarah and Saggi done for that tiny extra boost in the event of a quest-a-thon. So we're back at square one. Same thing goes for increasing her limit to 750k.

I do agree that I'd rather not have her be another generic quest, that's why I tossed a couple of ideas out there to maybe make her a little more interesting if the limit is removed.

I'm really not sure why Sarah's quests are even suddenly such a big problem? How much sP goes out from her quests on a weekly basis, outside of quest-a-thons? She's not even a weekend quest option, which makes her even less interesting. She gives out roughly 500-800k total, depending if you have a GA or not. If they fix the forum bank issue and make it count toward the group owner's account sP, I'm not sure how many people would want to risk it for the sake of her quests outside of a quest-a-thon. You can easily make 800k by restocking some crap and selling it. Or playing some games. 500-800k is pocket change.

That aside, can someone clarify - are group admins even able to remove sP from a forum group bank, or is it just the owner who can remove it? I'm curious, because if only the group owner can remove the sP, that'd put even more risk into using friend-owned forum groups to hide sP from Sarah. It'd be about on par with having a friend hold your sP via trades, and staff made it very clear that they can't do anything if the other user decides to keep your sP - it's your gamble.

Oh, you could do both, it wouldn't be against the rules.

It's just that one set of quests would count for a full 10/15, and the other set would count for 0. It's something that should be hard-coded into the site, so people couldn't find a way around it.

If the total is not equal, whatever should be counted is the quest-giver with most quests completed for the day (So if you have Saggi at 14 and Sarah at 10, the 14 from Saggi count, the 10 from Sarah do not)

This way, we won't have people doing all quests but one to have both of them count.

This way, people could still progress on their achievements and get quest rewards from both of them, but only ONE of them would count for the global quest-a-thon goal.