^^^^^ Agreed. Plus as a commissioner, I don't want to pay an artist more for skin tones I don't use and it certainly wouldn't be fair to the artists to do the work for free.

Glad to see the change update to the rules, however! I have no ideas in mind but I look forward to seeing the ones other people have~

Does this mean someone could draw shoes without CANKLES?

A quick note: Making items transformable is actually quite a bit of a hassle from what I've been told (yes, I asked Amber to possibly suggest this for customs, and promptly changed my mind). It's not as easy as going "alright, click, click, approve, click this, now it's transformable yay."

1. Each piece has to be done, and match (and since we're CW artists we have to make sure they match because fixing our errors is not only a big hassle, it's probably just not going to happen). It would have to be tested on each skin.
2. Each piece needs a CI with at least a small change for each.
3. Each piece has to be uploaded at the same time.
4. Each piece has to be approved.
5. Each piece has to be linked to one another.

If anything like this happened it would have to cost more, and chances are someone else would have to do it after Jessi approved of them.

This might actually bring me back to being more interested in Subeta's avatars. I switched back to Gaia a few years ago now, as my preferred place for making avatars.. Just because of posable legs and arms, and all of the different items that change arms/legs/base in some way or another. I have been waiting on Subeta to do/allow this for years.

Supper happy, super excited to see what happens. <3

Just to be clear, I'm not really voting either way. I mostly was just curious about the rules/saw the opportunity for clarification, especially since the examples provided were all the old 'all covered' variety. Like I said, I could have seen them just saying 'must be all covered'. It's nice that's not the case, but it still would have been a semi-reasonable limit to avoid all this.

I can see how it would be extremely nice for those who use skin tones that tend to be lesser used/catered to, but it's also - especially depending on their work style and how they handle recolours normally - potentially a lot more work for artists and once it gets on Subeta's end.

If it's even allowed I'd see it being more of an option, really, and I'd see it being more expensive too. I'm not sure where the price point would be to be both representative of the work involved and worth it. That point may not exist at all.

Just a little point of order: If they really only need to be treated "Just like official Subeta items" in this case - the wording in question/being clarified - then one of the two most recent examples doesn't conform to that point

[item=Delish Vir Sleeves (Base 10)] vs [item=Delish Vir Sleeves (Base 1)] [item=Graceful Black Art Print V.10] vs [item=Graceful Black Art Print V.1]

The Delish sleeves are an exception to the rule, probably because of the amount of Delish items already done for each pair of sets. Ordinarily when something is given the transform option, at the very least, the CI is flipped (which is a small change). With the amount of colors done for limbs, though, something more should be done to help differentiate the items. And while I never said they had to be treated just like official items, I've talked to Rah specifically about transformable items, so I'm going off of what we discussed. CW artists are handled differently than official artists, so if it becomes a thing you never really know what the rules and restrictions would be. But it stands to reason that yes, each one would have to be slightly different.

I was wondering the same thing about the brows and looked to see if anyone else asked.

So can the eyebrows be included with other makeup or do they have to be separate? Would def like to know.

And there are certainly some interesting questions in the posts too I'm curious about as well- what are the limits? Is it only limb edits, no other parts of the body? If so, which parts are allowed and not? Seems like it could be far more complicated now that more things have been brought up lol.

I was hoping someone else noticed too, I know there will be some CW creators who'd be interested in making makeup sets with eyebrows. It'd have to be easier than trying to match it up with something that exists onsite already.

The 'just like official items' was 's quote earlier in the thread, hence the quotes/mention of it being the wording being clarified. Just fyi.

Obviously CWs so far are different/not applicable, and most other site transformable items do change the CI - but most other site transformable items aren't just transforming for skin tone, especially when said skintone isn't featured in the CI (Delish Vir vs Art Prints).

/shrug. It's all up in the air, so people are asking. And if the 'like official items' line was anything but an example (as in if it is actually any part of the rule making process) then it especially needs nailed down.

I'm not saying each and every skin tone under the sun needs to exist. But the human ones would be nice. I'm not really saying there needs to be a change to the system, either. I don't expect them to be transformable, as stated in my post it's a nice feature for official items that I really enjoy. I wish there was some way to make some sort of equivalent for this system. I'm just saying this change to CWs will probably suck for anyone without a pasty white skin tone. I highly doubt many CWs will be made for anything else, because, as you said, "it's the creators choice based on what [they think] will sell best". (: Sure, I guess people can make their own CW if one they want isn't available, but not everyone can afford to do that and those that can will probably get accused of/bullied over "ripping off"/"copying"/etc. a previously existing CW. Not to mention, there's a lot of people who switch their skin tone.

I wish I could be excited about this change, because a lot of cool things could come out of it. But it has a lot of draw backs that make it not really worth it for me. I wish this had been left to official items and we be given eyes/mouths instead. Or as items where you can't see the skin.

This leaves a lot of blank spaces... Like, can I make a whole suit that has one arm raised that is tipping a hat? Or does this has to be like 4 different items? This is a extreme case but there are smaller things that cause the same situation.

Either way, i'm super happy with this, it's a door to thousands of possibilities.

Hey, sorry for all the questions and thanks for the hard work!

1. It does sound pretty weird, haha! Sorry, the backwards cheekbone-ear is just a pet peeve of mine and I'm excited to maybe not have to work around it. I did a really rough sketch to show what I mean. See how the sideburn has to be basically under the eye because of the weird perspective of the ear? What's on the right is what I had in mind - I know I'd have to make it for one skintone specifically, it'd basically be a not-private-but-made-100%-with-me-in-mind kind of item. I don't think changing the ears makes any difference with the chibi proportions of the base, so would this be okay?

2. Yay, thank you! Secondary question: Could I make a shirt with suspenders attached, because the perspective wouldn't look right on the site ones, and the suspenders as an item on their own would be really weird? Or maybe a shirt, then pants with suspenders, that are made to go together?

Good to know! Thanks for the answers. ^.^;

I'm sorry, but I really can't go through individual items on here essentially and let you know if they would be okay or acceptable! I'm perfectly happy to give vague ideas, but you're asking for pretty specific things, so that would have to be handled through actual submissions :)

For the latter question though.. suspenders are completely separate from pants and shirts and need to be their own item. NO rules regarding layering or anything like that are changing. (we continue to allow items that could not REASONABLY be separated, but something like suspenders are generally going to be absolutely fine to layer on their own)

does this mean the maternity style shirts/dresses that someone was trying to make are allowed now?

Oh, I understand! I was just hoping I could get an idea of whether the idea was against the rules before I spent too much time drawing it.

And I ask about the suspenders because there the question is basically: are you allowed to make items specifically to go with other items that modify the base, and if not, can you put accessories on body modding items? But I totally understand keeping separate pieces separate. Thank you!

But they allow that too now! :D We can make our HAs jump into the sky if we want :P

They do? ❤ I didn't see that part. Sweet! This is gonna be so awesome!