I like 's suggestion on the first page of GIVE ME FPS. I'M GOOD AT FPS.

This I don't agree with. Maybe I'm just bitchy but I feel like you should either get all the prizes or be able to skip steps you can't/don't want to do (and therefore forfeit the prizes and any completeion prizes at the end because, you didn't complete the plot).

This is a game and it's not Subeta's fault that you have health issues. Unless there's a way to incorporate a different task that you would be able to do (or different controls that might be easier, like the pirate game had), you should have to either play the game or forfeit your prize. Not that I don't support finding alternatives, if possible. It's also not that user's fault that they have health issues? Penalizing someone because their body/brain/etc. doesn't work at the same standard as other peoples' is discrimination. You get sued for that kind of thing IRL.

Now, I understand that people would be upset if people just opted out of doing anything altogether and still reaped the rewards, and I would agree that that is unfair and frankly kind of stupid. But I don't think anyone's arguing for that exact thing? I'm saying every step should have at least two options for progressing -- you still have to do something, but at least then a user with epilepsy doesn't have to play a flash game or a user with dyslexia doesn't have to try and solve a word puzzle. And then, yeah, if you still don't want to do the step, you can opt out without the achievement or the prize and come back later.

It's not asking a lot that people should be able to play a site that's meant to be fun without having their disability thrown in their face.

Amen, !

Maybe, but that doesn't mean Subeta/society can't do its best. In this and in previous posts you've been using the reductio ad absurdum that politicians love to use to deny disabled people / people with disabilities support: "If we offer those people enough money to live on, they will get lazy and not want to work! Then everyone will pretend to be disabled so they can be lazy! Then the state won't work!" This often gets boiled down to "Disabled people are lazy!", which gets fed back into the societal mindset and then ends up producing sarcastic sentences like:

I can see that you're angry with and you're using hyperbole to get your point across, but that (and the above quoted) kind of language is just really hurtful and a kick in the face to those who were genuinely and politely asking whether it's possible to accomodate them. This includes terms like "valid disability" (are there non-valid disabilities?) and "that's just a fact of life" (like when neuroatypical folks were locked up in asylums was a fact of life?).

This is written in the original spirit of the post, so, depending upon interpretation, either a plea or a ridiculous demand.

ppl are "jumping down your throat" because ur response is basically "well if its fair to me then its fair to everyone" which is laughable at best and very hurtful at worst

also whats a "valid disability"?? i need to know if any of mine count, thanks in advance!!

I found the rowboat game to be really damn difficult and nearly skipped it, haha. It's probably just because I'm not very good at multitasking or games in general though. It got a little easier when I stopped trying to make sure things were dead before proceeding because the timer was a way bigger enemy than damage. The instructions were a little confusing on that one, too. x:

Wow, THANK YOU for posting that. I was hoping to try for the level 15 achievement later today.

The reason I think arrow games should end is because they are impossible to play on mobile and that puts a lot of people out of achievements and important parts of the plot.

I feel with you on this, big time joint issues here. I severely hated that rowboat. (and am now struggling to get to 15 in Pirate Panic, up to 14 so far,and I'm getting better at it..., slowly..., thank goodness for the mouse option).
But even more the hating the game I hate giving up. Yeah, it took me two days, over 50 tries, and reading every hint, tip and stray bit of advice that I could find to do it but like you I'm stubborn that way. However I never want to see that game again.

Other people really liked it though, so I am really glad the skip game to continue plot option that many people suggested is being implemented. Reduced prizes and no achievement for the uncompleted step is just fine in my book.

You're welcome and good luck!

Yeah, for the rowboat game, it's a matter of plowing through it as best as you can. Even if you snag some driftwood along the way, the score doesn't matter as long as you get to the end. If anyone has trouble focusing on keeping the up key pressed down and tapping the left/right keys to turn, maybe try using something to jam the up arrow key and keep it pressed down? I don't know what else to suggest. :(

It really sucks that some people's health issues keep them from enjoying the event. I get motion sick pretty easily from some 3D games with weird, jittery cameras (and Subeta's Cybill Sledding), so I can kind of relate. But while I can avoid the games that affect me, it's not really that easy when you have a plot going on that requires you to participate in order to progress the story. A way to skip the game and sacrifice the achievements and plot prizes for that step is a good idea.

I may be wrong on this but I don't think we have to complete level 15 in order to continue, just as we didn't have to find 250 ghosts in Gravedigger. I'm jealous of your level 14, I'm only at level 12 so far. I need to get back there and get higher but I'm still looking for ghosts. Was it 2 or 3 years ago games like Burrero Basket Bonanza, Cybill Sledding, Caliph's Tomb, etc were tossed into the mix? We were able to get Achievements after the plot ended, so I'm hoping the same is true for this plot. There's no doubt some of these games are a struggle, but I'm having fun and I do think the Team has done everything possible to make it fair for everyone. The only negative thing I can say is the boat game is gone for me now. I did so badly I want another shot at it. I NEED to improve my score, even tho I didn't get a 'score' just a big "You made it" and the only thing I could think of was "I did? Finally!"

Yeah, I've progressed in the plot. I just really want that I got Spirit... achievement. Staff has definitely said the gravedigger one is sticking around after the event, so I suspect Pirate panic might be too. There are plenty of games available that I can play well, like Caliph's tomb and Memory, so even the rowboat should stay around in my opinion, as long as I can print out a screen cap of it to throw darts at.

Okay, last time: I'm okay with catering to people with valid disabilities to a certain extent. There reaches a point when it's ridiculous. I do not have a problem with making things more accessible. How many times have I said this in this thread yet some people either purposely or (even scarier) accidentally just plain misinterpret what I'm saying as some sort of attack on people with legitimate disabilities who want things to be more accessible for them?

Holy shit. You want to bring up logical fallacies when you're attacking me saying I'm like a politician because I don't 100% support you or people with legitimate/not legitimate disabilities? That's not what I'm saying at all. Again, are you actually not understanding (could be I'm not explaining properly or it could be you aren't able to understand) or are you trying to twist my words on purpose? Ridiculous. That is not at all what I'm saying. Now you've brought it up though, yes, there absolutely are people who pretend to have problems or blow theirs out of proportion because they're lazy and just want things easy at the expense of others. This is not something "politicians" have made up. Some of the politicians are assholes and do put others down. (I wonder how you're going to twist this to make it seem like I'm saying something else). I know several people who cheat the government because they pretend they're too hurt or ill to work but they're out gallivanting around enjoying their life on easy mode. This is a tangent though and again this doesn't mean I think ALL or even MOST people are like this.

Back to the topic: I do not support giving people with disabilities every single thing they ask for. Help them cope, yes, to some extent. Make it so that NOBODY can have something because they can't? No, absolutely not. I'm not saying all are lazy. That's not true at all and it's something you're pretending I said to try to make me out to be a shitty person.

Summary of my points:

• Helping people with legitimate disabilities cope: fine
• Taking something away so that nobody can have it because a few people can't: nope
• Does support in a game/real world social services make people lazy: nope
• Do some people take advantage of people's empathy: absolutely

1. Yes, there are people who pretend to have disabilities, i.e. non-valid disabilities. There are also "disabilities" as some people are calling them that aren't.

2. Of course you used an extreme example that has nothing to do with this to again try to make me out to be extra shitty. Of course because I bring up reality it must mean that I think insane people need to go into asylums! Since you've brought it up though, yes, it was a fact of life. It still is in some areas. We need to face things like that and deal with them, not bury them and pretend they didn't/don't happen. That doesn't have anything to do with this though.

1. That's not what I said at all. You are not reading what I'm saying, you're not understanding or you're pretending you don't understand so you can twist my words. I don't know if it's worth it to try to reason with you because you don't seem like someone who's very adept at that. You're possibly deliberately misinterpreting what I'm saying as an attack on people with legitimate disabilities who just want to be accomodated but not at the cost of others' comforts.

2. Ah, the typical "I'm super offended that not everyone who claims they have a disability is believed!!!" response. It's not the first time I've encountered it in my life and it certainly won't be the last. Nope, I don't automatically believe everyone as evidenced by my past responses in threads where everyone's "evidence" was, "My feelings!" and "My personal experiences!" without any acknowledgement of the time-proven concept of bias.

I've never been one to automatically believe what others tell me and that's a good thing. Enough people have come to me saying they have this and that problem and I usually say, "I'm sorry, that really sucks," but my response doesn't indicate my belief in their real or imaginary issues.

I'm also going to ask this: how does my not blindly believing people's claims prevent them from making them? Contrary to what some people believe most people (at least on sites like this) are going to automatically believe someone who says they've got this and that mental or physical ailment. Most people let empathy overrule their judgment. My belief or non-belief doesn't harm anyone.

THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY THINK IN THE YEAR 2015

'no more arrow games ever' = too much. alternatives for those who can't play them = super. I don't see how so many panties are in a twist about this.

lol @ how you're not even trying to be relevant to the OP any more. take it to the comments, jfc.

I'm so with you regarding arrow games. I can't even get 10 in Spectrail. When Major Drills says to get 161 in Spectrail, it's so absurd for me that I just laugh! Of course I was glad when the 'skip' option was introduced to the event.

Thank you for making this topic. :)

You're welcome. In all honesty when I made this thread I was up to my eyeballs in frustration. I think the staff came up with the best possible solution. The game remains but it can be opted out of. Win-win for everyone, those who like the game and those who just can't handle it.

THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY THINK IN THE YEAR 2015

Yes, yes it is.

Well, that escalated quickly.

Holy shit. You want to bring up logical fallacies when you're attacking me saying I'm like a politician because I don't 100% support you or people with legitimate/not legitimate disabilities? No? I said you're using a technique that is also used by politicians. Nowhere did I say you were like those politicians in the sense that you don't support disabled people. If you are like those politicians, it is because you are using the same language. I was taking a technique you used and placing it in the context of the wider world, to illustrate why such rhetorical techniques are hurtful and harmful.

I don't think I've ever been called stupid in such a roundabout way.

By definition, people who pretend to have disabilities do not have disabilities. They don't have "non-valid disabilities". Or "non-legitimate" ones, for that matter. Something either disables someone or it doesn't. "Fake", "non-valid", and "non-legitimate" used in conjunction with "disability" is a rhetorical tool used to invalidate people's experiences/disabilities in order to deny them support/agency/care.

Nope. Again, I am placing the language and words you are using in the wider context of the real world where those phrases and sentences have been used to justify legislation and procedures which have caused great suffering.

Despite claims to the contrary, I am quite able to understand that you hold a mindset that I neither agree with, nor will be able to change. I think it's therefore unnecessary to continue this discussion from my side, both because it is futile and because I try to limit my exposure to ad hominem attacks.

I'm very grateful to the Subeta Team for giving players a "skip game" option and trying their best to be inclusive when many other sites (and people) would stick to the "sink or swim" policy which is promoted, for instance, by right-wing politics. For any interested in further reading on politician's inflammatory, anti-disability rhetoric, I leave this link as a starting point.

Stop saying that I'm saying things I'm not. I am NOT saying things like some shitty politicans. I am NOT saying that people should be thrown into asylums. If you think me saying "that's reality" about something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT means you should bring up asylums then you are not a reasonable person.

You know what? You're done. Not me, because I've stated my viewpoints in ways that reasonable people can understand. You, however, are continuing to say that I'm saying x and y when I'm not and then getting mad at me for it.

There are people who lie about disabilities. There are also problems people have that are not disabilities. There are people who exaggerate their problems. That's what I'm saying.

There are people with real disabilities who ask or demand for things that make their lives easier at the expense of others. Also, not everything needs to be 100% accessible. Hate me for saying that all you want. There are things that aren't accessible to me like driving but that doesn't mean I'm going to demand that everyone else not be able to drive because I can't. That's just one example. This, however, is ultimately about a website. Websites can do whatever they want. They don't have to tailor things to everyone. If they want to have games that are controlled by arrows they can. There's nothing wrong with that. If that's a "big issue" for some people then those people have very easy lives. I'm not sure I support being able to skip games even at the cost of achievements and points but that's what staff have decided to do so whatever.

Again, I'm not right-wing and I'm not talking like a politicians. I don't have the beliefs that you think I do and I'm sick of you saying that I do. Thanks for being a passive-aggressive child by linking to things like that, it just shows what kind of person you are.

Thanks again for policing my language, insulting me, claiming I'm saying things I'm not and generally being unreasonable. You aren't someone that anyone should take seriously until you become more reasonable.

Such a brilliant read.

Also - I think in the future if the games include a skip button like these do now, it'd be great. But I don't think that Subeta should stop making games with Arrow controls. The new system is wonderful.

Also - for those saying arrows should be removed because of tablets & phones - Subeta is a browser focused game. They aren't going to cater specifically to mobile. Its been said before, it'll be said again at the next suggestion for something mobile. But thought I'd bring that up - If you want the best experience on subeta you have to use a computer of some sort.

[edit] Also I pinged the group but it said I didnt. So I removed the ping - but I def. meant to ping you here.

You don't get to decide what is and what isn't problematic. OP's complaint is valid, you don't live their life or anyone else's.