Why does it seem like the players are being expected to do more and more of staff's job, in particular areas related to the creative department... under the guise of "giving the players control"?

The more I think about it, the more I think you're right, yeah

If that particular staff member has "no time" to do this, someone else should be appointed, really.

Besides, I'm not enjoying the vision the pet spotlight took. I've been looking at early pet spotlight winners and found that I enjoy them a lot more than recent winners, not because they're more plentiful but because they're more diverse

Once again, Jessyta hit the nail on the head, the requirement for a written story is bullshit. You can appreciate your pet without writing a single word about it. You can appreciate your pet without having an interactive profile or a custom overlay.

The pet spotlight became a competition and people claim "unworthiness" and this is gross. This is gross because the pet spotlight was NOT ORIGINALLY MEANT TO BE A COMPETITION.

Also, if the pet spotlight is so taxing for staff, I wouldn't want whoever in charge to be a minimod. I'd like them to be fully paid staff.

In that same vein, how is it SO taxing if there are not enough pets to judge/win? How is it that there aren't enough to judge and/or win, but its too much for one staff member to handle and needs to become something for all of the users to do?

I've been wondering why pets don't win in the order they're nominated for a while now. Pets that have been nominating months ago are still sitting in queue, and pets I'm 100% positive were nominated recently get immediately accepted (and I know this because being part of the profile market, I know who makes profiles and when... so when the profile was literally just made, you know they were also /just/ nominated, and it's kinda of like "what's going on? what about all these other pets just sitting here?"

But yea your ideas are ace. I would hate to see user voting on the matter. I think that would put a lot of people off to pet spotlight even more.

It's not hard to throw credits at the end of the story like "Profile, story, and art done by me" in one line. It'd be cluttered it you do it all separately, yea, but that's pretty simple. There are a million ways to go about crediting. You could do it on the profile graphic itself like does on the profiles she makes. And it doesn't ruin the aesthetic at all. In fact, it doesn't even stand out. But it's enough to show who did what. But even here she still credits herself for the profile. Idk it just makes sense to me. :/

The problem is either "staff are too busy to have the time to judge these still" or it's "there's no pets in the queue" ... it literally cannot be both. Either way, if a user can only have one pet in at a time and there's 5 pets in the queue?

Then, in 5 days, they can win again when another pet is nominated/processed? There wouldn't be a 2 week wait-- which, also effects the spotlight if there's only 5 pets in there and they own 4 of them so I really fail to see how winning in order/one at a time would change anything in regards to not enough pets.

If the problem really is, though, that SO many pets are in the queue that staff can't even-- then a user only being able to have one in the queue helps solve that as well. One person with one instead of one person with fourty-five and all that.

HOWEVER if the problem is that there literally aren't enough pets to win-- then perhaps the spotlight really needs to change. Like I have 45 pets atm, and idk.. half probably have the requirements to be nominated (profile, writing, art) as long as people get over their whole hatred of basic templet profiles (I coded them, and they're simple because that's what I like lol)... but between people's blind hatred towards simple profiles and the fact that a trophy NEVER EVER goes away EVER... I have a -5% interest in partaking in the spotlight. Ever.

If the trophies went away/could be reset after 6m+, and the spotlight was more fair-- ie: you win in order-- then I'd probably be okay with entering. But right now? Naw I'm cool.

Tbh I prefer it not to be in order, currently. Because I can already feel the claims of "staff just go through and pick the cool kids/friends/awesome art first", it doesn't matter if they do that or not that's what would be said. However, if they had to work the queue more like CWs (in order, other than recolors.. which wouldn't apply to pet profiles because it doesn't take much more than an extra div or br to destroy a templet profile so there's no recolor angle really) so the approvals and wins went in order of acceptance... I feel like it'd be as fair as could be.

PS: I use spoilers to hide my credits, which are all basically me and/or my friend but still I hate crediting myself too (but the spotlight made me paranoid after a few art theft lynch mobs started) so I hid it under a spoiler (Like this).

I didn't even see the credits in Luci's profile. Thats a little too faint for me, as even when I was LOOKING for it I struggled to find it until I zoomed in to 300% and could make it out. I'm not saying people should credit, but I just don't feel the need to state the obvious of, "Done by me unless otherwise stated." If someone MUST know who drew my overlay and it doesn't expressly say, "Overlay by Choco" or whoever, then they can assume its the owner of the pet and roll with it. I don't exactly like to tell people, "Yes, I drew this, no I won't draw for you."

How did you alter the spoilers like that? :0 Thats pretty nifty.

If the staff has no time to dedicate for pet spotlight, why not just remove the feature or make it random just like the avatar on the front page.

Unless you find dedicated, unbiased and neutral users to "vote" (still laughing) then it's going to end up in a pile of shit.

I am not sure about how I feel for the requirement. I understand that the user itself need to dedicate a bit of their time to the pet itself but what if you can't code, can't write, can't draw and can only make a TC? I wonder where the line should be drawn.

Psh I've seen your profiles. I love your pets. I like that that the profiles are simple. Your TCs ;u;

I always wondered.... staff can do CWs in order AND give feedback when rejected but can't do similar and an incredibly minimal version of that for pet spotlight (checkboxes)?

I would say it falls more along the lines of "don't want to" more so than "can't".

Its been argued that Pet Spotlight makes the site no money. However, its still a feature that focuses on the pets. Without it, we're left with a site that is literally "Gaia fucked Neopets"-- FAR more emphasis on Avatars (look at most of the items released in the last few months. MOST are wearable, we have foods and books that double as wearables, toys that are wearable, the list goes on. Its fair to say that Avatars are the primary feature on this PET site. (I'm laughing at calling Subeta a pet site anymore, when so much of the site focuses on the avatars).

I don't feel the spotlight should go away, but rather that they need to find a better way of managing it. Minimods are a great way of doing this.

I'm still with "get a group of mini-mod like people to do pet spotlights instead of one staffer" but that's just me

Then, it's no longer just one person picking and choosing. There would be a group consensus. PAYMENT IN GAs FUCK YEA I WOULD DO IT.

Wait, I don't want them to get rid of spotlight! I enjoy it and I enjoy working on my pet. But if they fuck it up, then it's just taking away something that I like /again/ and it seems not valuable to me.

I .. don't know if I make sense?

You said in your previous post that if they don't have time, it should be removed, so... thats why I thought that.

havent had the time/energy to read thru this entire thread yet, so i'm not sure if i'm repeating anyone at this point, but i thought i'd throw this out there

one way to get me interested in the spotlight again is if we had the ability to re-enter a pet who's already won. i have a lot of pets who've "won" spotlight, only to later be renamed and given new characters, so for all intents and purposes, the pet that actually won that spotlight no longer exists. but since the ID used already has that trophy, i cannot enter what amounts to a new character into spotlight.

maybe have some stipulation that a pet who wins spotlight cannot be eligable to win again for 1-2 year(s)? and/or a pet ID winning any number of times past the initial win doesn't count toward the achievement? i mean i doubt people would sit there and try to farm wins off a single pet, but put a few roadblocks in there to keep the weirdos from trying anything.

but yeah, big big no to users voting on spotlight candidates, no matter how anonymously it's framed. if you dont think people will sit there and downvote perfectly eligable pets just for the hell of it, then you have way more faith in the subetan userbase than i do, i guess.

Sorcery :'D No really it's.. div classes and a mess of nonsense I only half understand because I like to be a pain in the ass and wanted two different types of spoilers (different sizes for different tables) and I wanted to be able to change the spoiler box itself as well as the hidden content box |D. You can also use images in place of text which is really neat, I did that for a while to make a faux-media player looking sorta thing (looked like winamp sorta).

If you want to play around with it I can pull the coding out of my profile and comment it to you (assuming the sCode for coding works in comments anyways).

Aww, well thank you ;u; I like my simple coding but ngl it pretty much makes me hate the spotlight that much more everytime someone wins with a 'simple' layout and people lose their heads about how it doesn't deserve to win. That's where a great deal of my disgust for it comes from (yay spotlight unless the profile is simple/there isn't a lot of art/I don't like this/they won recently/I don't like them/too many people like them-- which in case PITCHFORMS AND FIRE).

I mean I do understand why CWs get more attention (income and all that) (and wonderful TC fodder so not mad at all really) but yeah idk why the short and simple check boxes can't be a thing (or haven't been in the past)... if only a few very simple choices to point the user in the correct direction... like "grammar and spelling" "rule violations" "idea isn't acceptable for the spotlight (controversial, vulgar, too risque, etc)" "coding issues" and "aesthetics (bad color choices, broken images, broken links, misalignment, etc).

I'd like to see the whole system and operations overhauled, more than I'd like to see users take the wheel. If for no other reason than I honestly 100% believe that the winning system is completely automatized and not tampered with by staff at all. I believe this, because if there's one thing subeta cannot do... it's random. It can't random anything, so all things considering.. I believe it's indeed randomized... and I feel that should be changed, preferably to a "in order" system as that seems the most fair.

As someone who has been around since the introduction of the Pet Spotlight, and the various revamps it has gone through, I feel that in some ways, a new round of changes are needed. I have noticed over the last year or so, a decline in pet activity with Subeta's user base. I don't necessarily blame the stringent Spotlight rules and requirements solely for this decrease, but I feel that users aren't quite as enamored with showcasing their pets are they once were.

I will be up front, I love the Spotlight. I do not wish to see the end to it. I have 31 pets currently, and 17 of them have won the Spotlight. One of them, in retrospect, I feel should not have won but it was from a time when the Spotlight first debuted and I just wanted to win. I have had time to reflect and evaluate what the Spotlight means to me, and what I think it should mean to Subeta.

Pets are an incredibly important aspect of this site. It allows for such a wonderful array of diversity and creativity. They are also a vehicle for many components, from battling to mini-games. An end to the Spotlight, I believe, would be a mighty blow to the creativity many users embody and cherish. While some proponents of the Spotlight may be content with the idea of it dissolving, I think, that without it, a large chunk of the pet enthusiast population may disappear. There are many other platforms available that allow individuals to do character creation and world building, and they can easily be substituted for Subeta. In essence, the end of the Spotlight is a loss of that encouragement and oomph that drive people to work on their pets, which in turn can be rooted in the Subetan economy through purchase of TC slots and items, and commissions of graphics, text, or artwork.

If Subeta really wishes to put more responsibility on the user base for handling the Spotlight, there needs to be a lot of checks and balances in place, along with superb, comprehensive, and easily navigable coding and interface.

A few of my ideas/suggestions:

-Differentiate the Spotlight Requirements: For example, in order for a pet to be nominated it must meet 4 requirements out of a like of 5 or 6. Example Requirements Pet has a comprehensive TC of more than 15/20 items. Pet has a written component (poem, song, text) Pet has a unique, and aesthetically pleasing profile. Pet has a unique, and aesthetically pleasing overlay. Pet has at least 1 component, such as coding, graphics, written component that has been personally done by the user.

Something like this would give users that option to making their pet theirs, but it also alleviates some of the concerns I've seen here. Such as having a TC requirement, or having to have a written component. Give users some choices, and it'll go a bit smoother.

-Implement a checks and balances for Pet Reviews (Do not say voting, either up or down. It shouldn't be the bases of this revamp): For example, a user may review 5 pets each day, with no repeats unless the pet is removed from the queue and then returned. During the review process, the user goes through a checklist, noting if the pet is missing specific components (user name, pet name, species info, credits, ect), did not hit x, y, or z of the requirements list, or has glaring issues (ie, inappropriate content, neon yellow background). A small paragraph sized box to fill in any other pertinent information the reviewer has to share.

After the pet has been reviewed 5/10 times with no objections, the pet can continue onward into the winning queue pool. If there are more than 3 objections, the pet returns to the owner with the critiques available for review. The process begins anew.

I have some faith in the Subetan user population, that there are people who play this game that would give honest, unbiased, and meaningful assistance and critiques.

-Allow users to remove the Spotlight trophy from their pet after a certain period of time. Use this as an sP sink, or cost CSC. Many of the pet oriented features cost CSC (name changes, addition of more slots). Perhaps make it a purchasable MC item, so people can gift this is they want.

Please do not make this an automatic thing. I have no desire to change my pets, and the idea of having their trophies removed bothers me.

-Consider implementation of a Spotlight Search: I think would be helpful for users who want to still look up pets that have won the Spotlight, but perhaps are with a new user.

For example: Pet Name (Pet #) won the Pet Spotlight on Date under User Name's ownership.

-Please do not put a monetary value on winning the Spotlight. It doesn't seem necessary.

-Please do not associate achievements with doing pet reviews. If this is going to work, you want people to do this of their own free will, and not be enticed to do it. In the end, I believe it would do more harm than good for the whole process, and everyone involved.

I know it's just semantics, but I think that's a really important distinction to make. This should definitely be stressed in any future changes, especially if you're going to put players in charge.

I might be thinking of the CW queue, but I'm pretty sure there are two staff members who work on the pet spotlight queue.

backs out of the thread slowly

Okay, I've read all the pages, yes I'm a freak. Most of what I have to say is redundant, because I wrote it as I read and by the end it was mostly covered, but I'm saying it anyway. :P Here is my novel:

If we entertain the idea to remove spotlight trophies, automatically after a certain time is definitely messed up. Not everyone changes their pet over and over, or ever. Paying to make it happen, sure! Yay sp sink! When the pet is abandoned, yep. I do see how this may affect the winner database. This pet won on this day! click different pet, no trophy. :/ Keeping a working copy of each winner separate from the actual pet profile to avoid that would probably be a massive weight on the servers? (not that I know about that stuff) But I suppose it would be necessary to keep someone from paying to remove the trophy, only to re-enter the same/barely modified pet profile to get more wins. (Did I see there are ach tiers?) Can't put anything past people, ya never know. Anyone have a solution there?

If we go forward with user 'voting'

I think we've established that making it anonymous is pretty well impossible. How many pet profiles have the petname emblazoned in artistic graphics across the page? You can't blur that out without affecting the quality of the entry. Then you just subeta search that name and find the actual lookup with the username attached.

Definitely a rule saying NO creating topics announcing 'my/username's pet is in the spotlight/vote for it!'

On the viewpoint of popularity contest, as long as this isn't 'most votes win' it may not be that bad. If a pet only needs a certain number of 'ready' votes to get to the second staff approval round, they'll get there if they are up to par regardless of popularity. I think being nominated by someone else is a bigger hurdle than getting enough votes when you are unpopular. Simply because if you don't have many friends, not many people are looking at your pet to nominate it. But if you can submit your own pet and it's in the queue getting flashed in front of people, they're gonna have to vote on it. (No skipping! Ready/not ready/unsure) If someone is vindictive and doesn't like you they could down vote out of spite, so to avoid that, give us the same rejection checkboxes staff will have and a comment box as to why the pet isn't ready. If users are caught rejecting/accepting for no good reason, they can't vote anymore.

^COMMENTS!^ required in addition to a ready/not ready/unsure vote. Then when the pet has enough votes to bump into a queue, it goes into one of three. Mostly ready votes, mostly not ready votes, mostly unsure/conflicting votes. That way when staff go into a certain list they know what they are likely dealing with. (Respectively, checking for rule breakage/putting in winners queue, giving denial reasons/rejecting, figuring out wtf.)

I also feel like comments would be a good way for staff to flag those who are critiquing with extreme bias. Liking only friends' pets and going against others for no good reason. Perhaps ban them from voting for a certain amount of time. Repeat offenders maybe get banned from entering the spotlight as well. As well as reward users who are very constructive and helpful. Perhaps with that new helpful user ach they brought up with the community guidelines.

Also, what about, once a person votes/comments on a pet, it shows along with their username to everyone who views the pet for voting as well? That way no one gets that anonymous power feeling and there is more pressure to be honest. And it's more of a dialogue about whether the pet is ready.

Winners in order of latest submission date. How is this not a thing??

I was just thinking... What if one of the achs for voting for pets was a title "Distinguished" or something that adds "has discerning taste" to your forum name that you earn by voting for a high percentage of winners. You'd have to vote for at least 10 pets and say 80% of them would need to be in the winners queue before you could get the ach. If your percentage dropped then the title would be revoked. Maybe attach a very desirable but immovable prize such as a salon hairstyle or skin that can likewise be revoked if the user starts voting for unworthy pets. It might be a way to keep people from voting frivolously.

Is that something easily done? Or ridiculously complicated?

I feel repetitive. I need sleep. lol

Pet Spotlight Feels! I read all the pages and I have some thoughts, I hope some of my commentary is helpful, I really like that this is getting attention again.

I feel like the proposed system is a little like Steam Greenlight right now- users review pets they think are spotlight worthy and once a pet gets a certain number of approvals (15 or whatever is reasonable) they get into the pool for staff to pick winners from? I think with some tweaks a user review system could work really well:

For one thing we need to take pets who have reached the required number of approvals out of the queue, so users can only vote on pets who still need to reach that number. That means even if someone popular gets in, it's not going to matter past those 15 reviews (nobody is sitting with 100 upvotes while some less populars have like 2) and they won't be in the way of those who still need reviews. This keeps it from being a voting competition amongst users and nobody will need to make "Vote for my pet" threads. Heck, order the pets oldest first on those pages so the pets who need reviewed the most are the first ones we see. Pets that have 15 approvals can be moved on into a "waiting room" queue that users can still browse through, where they then wait for final approval from staff. Hopefully this is an easy task if they have gotten this far without being flagged! With staff approval they finally get into the pet spotlight winner pool. Then randomly chosen as usual. This could be a cute way to set up the spotlight visually as well. We can have the applications room (page), staff approval room, the spotlight winner for the day, and hall of previous winners. I just hope they can all be browsed through whether or not we're reviewing them. The minimods can monitor the flagged pets, see if they really do need to be flagged. Assuming your name is always noted during each review step, the minimods can keep track of people who mass flag or anything like that, make rude comments or flag on bs reasons, and ban them from the system. I hesitate to say minimods can give staff approval, but maybe after 6 months of work (or w/e) they can be allowed to give staff approval and move them to the winning pool. And of course they can help with questions and comments like our forum minimods do.

And honestly I'd be all about a user review system, because it would be really really cool to have a functioning, up to date system to be able to see other people's pets. Right now the only way to find neat pets is hang out on the pet forum and randomly pick usernames and randomly pick pets until you find nice ones. And the previous spotlight winners, which is hit and miss since there's no guarantee they still have anything spotlight worthy on their profiles. So I'm 100% FOR a way that users can go through and review up pets who are nominated for the spotlight. This would be a great way to have a current, up to date window into the pet community. We get to see everyone who's participating and has great pets NOW and be part of the process. That should keep people more interested in the process too, at least I would be if it meant I got to browse awesome pets and look forward to my favorites winning someday.

I think staff definitely needs to be a part of the system still. Maybe it's because I'm used to the current system but it doesn't seem to me that making this part of the site more user-interactive is the staff being lazy and pawning off their jobs. As long as staff can still approve the final queue it could work really well.

I love the minimod help part of this too. I'd love to apply for something like that, god knows my pets won't be spotlight ready any time soon, and I'd get to be super active and helpful in my favorite aspect of the site. It'd be awesome.

Other things I liked: -Option to flag a pet for removal but no automatic removal and no downvotes -Checklist of reasons why for both the users and staff level of flagging and removing pets from the queue -"Pet must have 4 of 6 requirements" idea that was talking about. Have other rules separate: credit everything etc. can be non-negotiable, but for the content of the spotlight, it gives users room to be creative in their own ways w/out forcing everyone to have everything always

Things I worry about: -This whole system hinges on user input and in the event that the spotlight loses traction like it has now, the process will slow down severely -... probably more things I'm not thinking about because I'm so excited to see the spotlight getting some attention.