I'd be interested to know why eyes/lips are still not CW'able. I'm really bummed none of the eyes made the cut, I'd love to see them available somehow, even as CW's.

As much as I like and want them on site I'm a little uncomfortable thinking of them going in the MC or BHH, etc, honestly, mostly because they are user made contest non-winners. Not only would it essentially require a second tier of judging and establishing a second cutoff point, it would create a huge precedent for what happens with user made contest items and I'm not sure I'm ready to see user made items pop up in BHH.

It would be much easier to revise the CW rules. I'd love to see that happen.

I don't want exceptions for facial items while people who made wigs can't be given the same exceptions and HAVE TO SHELL 5000 CSC to get their non-winning entry onsite instead sorry.

It would be horrible if like, someone who made a wig that didn't make the cut by 15 votes had to pay 5000 CSC while a pair of eyes who didn't make the cut by 25 votes went in the MC at no charge.

Rules should be the same for everyone, which is why I want the CW rules changed.

i view CWs as a double edged sword that cuts Subeta deeply in terms of art quality. There is a sheer diversity in CW that seems sorely lacking in OW atm without adding eyes/mouth in the mix. Every time a CW is added to the site it provides for the business that subeta is but more importantly it also cuts of the various avenues the site could explore with a similarly item.

Staff has made SP versions of CWs in the past

The Steamwork Aviator Vests were different versions of a cw aviator vest, done by the same artist

Same with one background (Zeppelin tours)

Finally, the Ocfords and Flats recently released were also made because of CW trends. Just because it was made as a CW doesn't mean it cannot be made as a SP item, with its own spin. Especially for things as generic as shoes.

It's definitely a double edged sword in other ways, too.

How often have we seen a site release based on a very popular instance of a hugely popular CW or a CW set? (Basic Flats, I'm lookin' RIGHT at you, as well as the 12358123974 kimonos on site). The site's not cut off from exploring various avenues, in fact it's written into the CW rules that the site retains the right to make items based off your items if they want to.

And looking at it the other way, at least three or four of the eye sets we voted on looked incredibly similar to the BHH Moonstone eye item. The item already exists, yet that avenue certainly isn't cut off.

Sure, quality may not be as great with some eye/mouth CW's. But that's the case with any other type of CW, too. Revising the CW approval rules would help with this.

Potential lack of quality in CW's shouldn't be a reason to ban the type entirely.

4 items + recolors from a pool of nearly 13 k items. Lucky us!

I could make an entire list of items that actually were based on CW (just as who is a fandom item that is also a CW) but I don't have time or interest in wearables and don't know all of them by heart.

But there are more than 4, wow.

This just in: apparently if you're giving examples you have to cite every instance ever or your opinion is invalid.

I loled

Seriously, site artists also have to draw NPCs, foods, minions, plushies, stickers, books, pets and art for other site features, and we don't have that many artists anymore?

And there was also a TS version of a CW tribute wig (from Brave no?) and the original two toned flats.

I still don't see how allowing eyes and lips crosses some huge line. CW can already completely create new legs or even a whole lower body like and and become partially robotic .

We can have bunny ears galore and up till recently I could see the ban on noses, but with zombie bases and the new nose items, I don't see the problem?

As for people claiming stolen designs and private items, that's already going on so I doubt it will add much more issues.

We got two onsite versions of that wig too, didn't we? Or pretty similar ones, released around the same time?

Yeah I just straight up don't see the problem with allowing these things to be submitted. Literally the only problem I have is that they would probably fall under "base edits" and I just don't see myself paying 5-600 CSC for a pair of eyes (but I also have a default eye setup I use 99% of the time anyway, and I just switch out the ones I layer on top. So I don't have a real reason to buy CW eyes, therefore that's not a problem).

I think we did, but browsing the wardrobe on my phone sucks xD

Honestly at 500 or 600 a pop I doubt many would buy them, but I'm sure if the staff looked into it, there might be a market.

The recent make up releases have been pretty well received, so I don'tthink allowing CW ones would cause problems either.

Yeah I don't know, I thought maybe I was thinking of the SubQ one but no that one's different :x

I totally agree with you, depending on the item I would pay that much (I paid 45m for the Argo Blackout liner after I hit the shop till saver achievement); I've paid it for makeup items before, too. But I know that there are bound to be people out there that would pay it.

Yeah, I think that, on this situation, whatever option we look at, however we look at it, there will be relevant arguments against it.

I can't really remember what is staff's opinion against CW facial items, but allowing for too much freedom and not working with pre-existing official features are likely to be among them. When we submit makeup, we have to make sure it works with at least one set of basic, default eyes for it to be approved.

As it stands, custom facial items can't be sold as official items without being top 6-10, because it would be either considered unfair to the creators who wouldn't get prizes (even if they might be ok with that), or unfair to the other people who went through the slotting bother / paid a higher price via the regular CW system. I can understand that much.

It's uncool to set an exception for them to become official items, but they are an exception to CWs. Which, at this point, I can only hope to be reconsidered, since that seems to be literally the last somewhat-viable option we have.

I don't think comparing official art and custom art is any helpful at this point, since it's pretty clear one does not exclude the other in any way! That's why we give the art to Agoge Inc. upon submission. No matter which venue the items get released at, staff can always make similar items if they wish.

Jokes apart, yeah, I can understand the "not making an exception to make up for another exception" argument, even if I, personally, don't care much at this point, since contests like this are an extremely seasonal thing.

I would be perfectly happy with any decision that would allow custom facial items on site, even if it was a highly limited feature and had its own set of rules. Now, while I'm not particularly defending those items getting placed on the MC (and this sidetracks a bit from the base argument), I must mention nothing is completely free of charge!

I, as a CW maker, often won't pay to get my item on site. Unless it's something quite impopular that I personally want. In that case, I will choose the direct-to-CS release, then I'll pay a lot less than 5000 csc, too. Now for an extreme example: a contest item made it into the MC, at some 30m price. At the end of the day, for the buyer, is that any cheaper for than paying 600 csc in my CW shop? Is it any different for me, who would get a free copy anyway? Getting technical, maybe the item gets on site "free of charge", but nobody will ever own it free of charge.

I agree it would be simpler to just lift the limitations than to create more unnecessary complication to go around them, though. I'm just so tired of this that I don't mind anymore. If 5k csc was ever the issue, I'd fork it out so things could happen. :/