tbh i do think it's sus that they didn't publish item rates for either box

also i still want to know why the cry of the hydragellos blessing doesn't block physical

🤦‍♀️ty, fixed

one more correction for you, sorry ;A;

Thats interesting data.

If I remember Chi Squared, that probably failed to conclude that 10% is the assumed to be the correct percentage, but if 10% is the correct percentage there was only ~23% chance that it was actually just luck that it's a close as it is?

I think its probably still safe to assume that they are the correct percentages though. If I were engineering it to have percentages that were not 10% each, it probably would have been something like 40% chance to get one of the 2 new tier 10 items, and 5% shot at TKSS, Thunderball, Shinwas Lighning, and Briefcase, and then 10% for each of the other items. The fact that TKSS had a population of 10 and not much lower, makes me think that its probably just 10 across the board.

I think a few of the 100% blockers didn't block physical. I think Spacial Abyss used to block everything except phys (but SAS seems much worse than I remember it being now.). I think it used to be a pattern that if it was blocking most icons, it wasn't blocking phys.

well my only reaction to that is seems lame to skip one if you're going to block everything else, but what do i know

Looks like Wrath of K has been graced with a 5th mod slot. SoSS too maybe?

And now Kwand looks more trash in comparison ....

With an extra slot, Wrath of K does +8.16 more with EoR slotted. At 34-42 icons and a 18 icon curse for 3 turns at 10%, thats 47.56-55.56 vs 48.6-54.6 for Kwand when freeze is effective. Otherwise, Kwand loses out completely now with its 40-46 base icons =/

For T12, both Kwand and Spork is pretty lackluster now given the 5th mod slot and icon boosts of the T11s... At this point, it's hard to tell whether they are T12 Gods or a Cronus Blade with a different gimmick.

Can confirm SoSS and Wrath now have 5 mod slots. AU still only 3 mod slots.

Kwand 20% freeze is essentially a 120 Icon curse that heals you for 29% and 100% blocks. It's still by far the best weapon in the game if freezing is active.

So with 4 EOR mods, it's essentially 64-70 Base icons + 24 Icon/turn Curse + 100 Icons fire defense + on average 15.8% healing

vs Wrath with 64-70 Base + 5.4 icons/turn + 10% Heal

And thats with me simplifying some math that makes wrath better than it is. It's also using 10% chance, when I think its more like a 3-5% chance.

Spork is a hard one to evaluate. I agree with you that i'm not super impressed by it on paper, but that curse + that blessing might actually be OP together. I'm also not sure it was meant to be on par with KWand, and that they might have meant it to be on the weaker end of the god weapons.

@ THESOVEREIGN

A second weapon complicate things since I could select a secondary with icons the opponent doesn't block and render the freeze-curse aspect pointless, or greatly cut into its effectiveness. As for the curse activation of Wrath, it is definitely higher than 5%.. Just quickly testing on Chase, I had it activate 11 times out of 85 turns (12.9%).

Lets first look at Kwand alone, thats 64-70 base + 12.8-14 freeze-curse + 8.64 EoR curses for overall max dmg output of 85.44-92.64 (89.04 avg)

Now, adding in a second weapon, where freeze provides additional unblockable dmg on top (say another maxed godly; avg 73 base; +14.6 max), Kwand does an impressive 103.64. Though, realistically, it's pretty impossible that your opponent is fully blocking your entire attack on every freeze turn to realize the full +28 from freeze. Say the opponent consistently blocks 50% of your attack instead, you would realize half - 6.7 icons (kwand) & 7.3 icons (secondary) for a respectable 89.64 (67 avg base + 6.7 + 7.3 + 8.64)

For Wrath: 64-72 Base (34-42 + 6*5 EoR) + 9.9 curse + 10.8 EoR curse; max output of 84.7-92.7 (88.7 avg)

When the opponent can be readily frozen and blocking 50%, Kwand does +0.94 over Wrath of K. The benefits of freeze on the defensive aspect is what's unique, leading to large damage mitigation. Without freeze, however, Kwand drops way down to 75.64 (-13.06 vs wrath).

I do not disagree that Kwand is the best weapon when the opponent can readily be frozen, but it's not that significant. In reality, especially at endgame, many opponents have some form of freeze protection and even on freezable enemies, the effect overlaps with freeze chaining scrolls.

By comparison, the curse-type godlies does a comparable amount but have no freeze conditioning - Sandreaver(88.9), MStaff(89), BStaff(89.6).

As for the Spork, my opinion is that its performance falls in the middle of the godlies. It has less damage output (83.14) compared to the other godlies and is around the level of the blessing-types (SSB, OStaff, WotP - all 83.8). As for its blessing and weapon restriction effect, I think it's comparable to OStaff in terms of healing and damage mitigation though less consistent. You also lose a turn of freeze & steal protection as well.

I mentioned this before, but I don't know why the spork was decided to be a T12 God. It's damage is less than their T11 counterparts and its effects isn't anything crazy either. Maybe Cronus Blade is just too good at T12 to compare with...

[Edit] Fixed some typos.. whoops Updated Wrath's curse: +4.5 overall in wrath's favour Corrected freeze bonus at 50% block (forgot to half the freeze-curse icons from kwand)

Kahaleitzlis Grief (Curse) 11 fire 11 light 11 magma 3 turns

Jacques Kindness (Blessing) 250 dark 250 wind 100 heal no freeze and no steal 3 turns

I think the real benefit to the neo spork is the blessing and curse. It's like a cranked up version of ostaff that blocks freezing and stealing. When activated with either slappy or ostaff blessing, it makes it very hard for opponents to do damage. The curse also disables an enemy weapon. Does that mean it should be the rarest weapon/wear on site worth 9 bil? I think that part is subjective.

Both the void and SA don't block light

Ooh 5 mod slots now on the antique Godlies and upgraded curse/blessing? That's awesome. Time to go add a mod to chickenpizza

The curse upgrade for Wrath of K is pretty massive - going from 18 to 33 for 3 turns. Put together, it now has dmg output at the level of other curse-type godlies (for less than half the price, infinite supply, no rng =O):

Kwand (freeze, max potential) - 103.64 Kwand (freeze, 50%) - 89.64 BStaff - 89.6 MStaff - 89 Sandreaver - 88.9 Wrath of K - 88.7 SSB, OStaff, WotP - 83.8 Spork - 83.14 Kwand (no freeze) - 75.64

@ Wesker OStaff also has freeze and steal protection built into its blessing. Between the two, you're basically trading:

• 18 block, 600 heal, and 1 turn of freeze/steal protection on ostaff for
• a single turn of weapon restriction on the Spork (curse dmg already factored into spork's dmg output above)

fyi spork & bstaff curse also disables opponent’s scrolls

I'm certainly not complaining about the upgrade lol

Yeah that's what I meant by cranked up ostaff. It's the same blessing but with slightly more defense and slightly more health. I'm talking about the ability to combine it with ostaff or slappy. If both blessings are active between the spork and ostaff, the added defense, additional 2,200 HP with 20% heal will make it hard to take damage.

All of the weapons we listed imo are godly based on their stats and what they do. In terms of which is best is subjective. Stats are only as good as your ability to use them.

maybe I missing something in your calculations, but when Kwand gives you a freeze, the way I was calculating it was + 151 Icons (64+64+23) and 29% heal + a significant amount of mitigation. Which at a 20% rate gives +30 icons/turn on average 103.9 overall and +5.8% heal + 20% damage mitigation.

To me with preselect turned on, a difference of 5-10 icons is essentially a rounding error. 15.8% healing + 20% mitigation though is a game-changer though.

I think if you match the damage output of Wrath when freezing is disabled, it just becomes the undisputed best weapon in the game.

(and absolute but I already pinged you) The curse can basically be thought of as probably like 35-50% damage mitigation per turn at a 10% rate would be a 3.5-5% damage mitigation overall, combined with less than 100 total defense, and it's split so your more likely to waste even more of it, i'm still kinda eh on it. The blessing is nice though.

If I were chosing between AU and Spork, I think I would be taking the spork. But AU can be found for like 1-2bil vs closer to 9. When you add in the drawback of being a T12 weapon, I think the spork could have been pushed a little more, or dropped to T11. But then again the difference between T11 and T12 weapons is so weird that I feel like all the T12s could be dropped to T11 without breaking much/anything, while making them massively more desirable.

I feel the same way about the weapons being dropped to T11 tbh. There is nothing in T12 that is game changing. The boosting from cronus just makes life a little easier when you have less stats. Same holds true for me with the panzer gauntlet. My newly turned T11 can beat all BQ opponents except for biting cake when I use the gauntlet.

If you add price into the mix, none of them are practical. The 9 bil price tag is more of a collector's price unless they start making opponents that are impossible to beat without the use of these weapons. Now, is a weapon worth 9 bil just for fun and because I have nothing else to spend 9 bil on? I will never know xD I liked my wok before and I am sure I will like it even more now.

I agree that all the godlies are amazing for what they do and that which is best depends greatly on the situations where they are used in. The main thing I'm trying to highlight is Kwand and Spork are Tier 12 Gods compared to their T11 counterparts. What is it about these two that justify the higher restriction? Cronus is the most comparable at T12 and by the numbers (max potential of 81.14), the gap between a God and CS Challenger loot doesn't look that significant.

There's a bit of double counting with your approach. A freeze doesn't give you a full extra turn of damage or healing; rather it enables unblockable damage and mitigation for a turn.

Example 1: Let's say the battle finishes in 3 turns and the opponent doesn't block.

Scenario A:

• Turn 1: 100 icons, 29% heal, freeze triggered; took 10 icon dmg
• Turn 2: 100 icons, 29% heal; took 0 icon dmg
• Turn 3: 100 icons, 29% heal; took 10 icon dmg

Scenario B:

• Turn 1: 100 icons, 29% heal; took 10 icon dmg
• Turn 2: 100 icons, 29% heal; took 10 icon dmg
• Turn 3: 100 icons, 29% heal; took 10 icon dmg

Notice that you don't do more damage nor healing with the freeze, but you did take less damage (mitigation).

Example 2: Same as the first example, but now the opponent blocks 50% instead of attacking.

Scenario A:

• Turn 1: 100 icons, 29% heal, freeze triggered; blocks 50, netting 50 icons dealt
• Turn 2: 100 icons, 29% heal; blocks 0, netting 100 icons dealt
• Turn 3: 100 icons, 29% heal; blocks 50, netting 50 icons dealt

Scenario B:

• Turn 1: 100 icons, 29% heal; blocks 50, netting 50 icons dealt
• Turn 2: 100 icons, 29% heal; blocks 50, netting 50 icons dealt
• Turn 3: 100 icons, 29% heal; blocks 50, netting 50 icons dealt

Here the damage gained from the freeze is 50 - equaling the amount that would have been blocked otherwise. The more the opponent blocks, the better the gain from a freeze; and likewise, the less the opponent blocks the lower the impact a freeze has on damage.

I see what your saying. I should either count the mitigation or count the freeze turn as a curse, and not both. I'm not sure I agree with your approach of having the benefit total minus the opportunity cost of what would have been blocked. I think your basically doing the opposite of what I was doing, where your half counting the damage from freeze

I could see why you would do it the way you are if preselect didn't exist, because the extra clicks would add up. But with preselect automating the freeze turn down to a single click, especially in a longer battle, I'm not sure it's super relavent.

??? What I'm trying to illustrate is that freezing doesnt give you more damage. Any perceived increase is purely a function of what the opponent would otherwise block. No idea how preselect has anything to do with damage output.

Hmm.. now that I think about it like that, I dont think either of our calculations were correct.

Opponent doesn't block:

• Kwand 75.64 (43 base + 64 EoR base + 2.164 EoR curse + 0 freeze adjustment)
• WoK 88.7 (38 base + 65 EoR base + 9.9 curse + 2.165 EoR curse)

Blocks 25% every turn:

• Kwand 65.89 (67 base * 0.75 + 8.64 EoR + ((67 kwand base + 73 godly base) * 0.2 freeze rate * 0.25)
• WoK 71.7 (68 base * 0.75 + 9.9 curse + 10.8 EoR curse)

Blocks 50% every turn:

• Kwand 56.14 (67 * 0.5 + 8.64 + (140 * 0.2 * 0.5)
• WoK 54.7 (68 * 0.5 + 9.9 + 10.8)

Blocks 75% every turn:

• Kwand 46.39 (67 * 0.25 + 8.64 + (140 * 0.2 * 0.75)
• WoK 37.7 (68 * 0.25 + 9.9 + 10.8)

Blocks 100% every turn:

• Kwand 36.64 (67 * 0 + 8.64 + (140 * 0.2 * 1)
• WoK 20.7 (68 * 0 + 9.9 + 10.8)

That looks much more accurate. In summary, between the two, Kwand edges out WoK when an opponent has no freeze protection and is consistently blocking half your attack every turn.

[Edit] And to get that magical 103.64 (67 base + 8.64 EoR + ((67 kwand base + 73 godly base) * 0.2 freeze rate * 1), the opponent would have to:

1. Have an 80% chance of not blocking any damage
2. Every time the opponent triggers a full block (20% chance), a freeze triggers at the same time every time

It is only under this scenario that you 'gain' an extra turn worth of damage that would otherwise been a full block.

Personally, I think it's just because the admins wanted to make another weapon T12. Unless there is a significant edge introduced to T12 weapons, the restriction is solely in place to encourage someone to train to T12. However, making a new T12 weapon/wear with only 4 copies planned to go out makes no sense. It could be a T1 weapon with the same stats for that matter.

the problem with your method though is that its not a great way to compare weapon to weapon, because your not taking into account which icons are getting blocked. So if you just assign a 50% block to a weapon and try to compare it against another weapon and give it the same 50% block, unless they have the same icons, it's not really that comparable.

Additionally, whether or not you win a battle here is very rarely influenced by doing X% more damage, with very few exceptions (like BQ Surge in Tier 5/6 or careaper). That's why I don't count a successful freeze as a turn and just add it on to the damage of the previous turn, since I didn't need to worry about surviving the freeze turn, that was basically a given.

The reason I bring up preselect because the other time that a freeze turn shouldn't be taken as a free turn is if your doing something like mass battling a single challenger, where your efficiency is limited by how quickly you can click through, and not your ability to survive. It's why I think most people severly underestimate Shattered Rift Blade, because especially in event scenarios where you are limited by time, saving clicks can be a pretty significant efficiency boost.

The calculations were with the basis that the damage reduction from the block is applied equally regardless of icon types... ie. Opponent blocks 50% of all icons. Yes, in reality, differences in icons will present advantages and disadvantages that will give many variations on which weapon is better when. What I'm trying to show, however, was that the any damage 'gained' from a freeze is a function of what the opponent would have otherwise blocked.

I'm of the opinion that: Opponents die when you deal damage, they die faster with more damage. Damage is also a form of mitigation and efficiency.