Well, I tried googling "labrys"" as well, and all I came up with was "greek sword". "Noah fence" to you, but if you want people to "understand", then perhaps you wouldn't mind explaining when somebody asks an honest, sincere question.

agender = Doesn't have a gender. When asked whether they're male or female, will say "neither".

aromantic = Doesn't experience romantic attraction. In other words, they don't want a romantic partner of any gender.

searching 'labrys' both displays a picture of an axe, which is what a labrys is, and provides an autofill for 'labrys flag', which then leads to the wikipedia page for lgbt symbols. the wikipedia page for 'labrys', the first result shown for me, also has a section specifically labelled "lesbianism" that explains its use in the lesbian community. both 'agender' and 'aromantic' return definitions/links to definitions in the first five results on either page.

i'm forced to assume you did not, in fact, look very hard in your quest to "understand" us. it's okay not to know things, but it's not alright to act entitled for us to spoon feed information when you very clearly didn't put in much effort at all to understand in the first place.

I mean, as much as we've been complaining about dead forums, maybe don't kick someone for asking a question and trying to educate themselves? Not exactly making for a welcoming forum experience here. Maybe they didn't want a textbook definition from Google. Maybe they wanted it from an actual person who possibly identifies that way so they could understand on a more personal level. Maybe they just wanted to have a conversation on a petsite they enjoy playing.

And y'all wonder why people are so afraid to post.

Anyway, I'm happy to see the flags, I know a lot of users have been requesting them since (before?) the sashes came out.

There is a MASSIVE difference between asking questions to learn better and being willfully ignorant or bigoted. If someone can't or won't tell the difference between the two and won't post because of that, honestly, good.

How am I supposed to hold them all at once???

ps: could we have an agender flag pls owo ?

Sure, on that we can agree. But there was nothing like that in their initial post. Could've been worded better, it did come across a little rude. But it didn't warrant the "noah fence" response. The immediate sass and dismissal doesn't exactly look good. Y'all could've just answered the question and moved on.

That kind of response just shuts down any potential for education or communication. Like, looking at 's post, I'm super confused why you'd ever need both Bi and Ace flags at the same time, cause as far as I'm aware, those are pretty much polar opposite things. One is attraction to all, one is attraction to none. So how can you have both? But from the responses I've seen on this thread, it's clear you'll just assume I'm asking in bad faith and shut me down. That's not how you make yourself look sympathetic.

but seriously someone please explain that bi/ace thing. I saw it in the news comments too and I just don't get it

Bisexual isn't attracted to all. There is pan for that but saying bisexuals are only interested/attracted in man and woman would be wrong too. Sexuality is very fluid and not a straight line all the time.

As for the whole asexual part ... Well, I go out with girls and boys but we do not have sex? I am mostly interested in woman tho, so I could also use the lesbian flag. You can be asexual and engage in sexual behaviours or get aroused. Being ace doesn't mean you are always repulsed by sex. There is also demisexual. Demisexuals are attracted to their partner(s) after sharing a deep bound with them. Which would mean that one nights stands are not our thing (can't talk for all, as always) We can be asexual and poly too! There is really not limit out there tbh.

Don't forget that asexual =/= aromantic. We ace folks can still experience romantic feels! (or not) @ Archer [Edit] Disclaimer: I ain't perfect with terms which is why I'm just writing from my own understanding.

we're not here to make ourselves look sympathetic or to teach people why we should be allowed to exist unperturbed. we're people living our lives that face regular violence and threats of violence for the way we do so. you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what pride means and how to seek out information from people who maybe might have experience with being asked certain things in poor faith the vast majority of the time.

also, i should note that this isn't an all-purpose lgbt+ identity thread. this is a feedback thread for the new pride flags, and derailing it is still derailing even if you don't understand something.

as far as the new flags themselves, like i commented on the announcement i'm glad to see the labrys flag gaining popularity outside of transmisogynist circles, and i'm glad we have alternatives to the sashes. the trans one in particular was pretty annoying to use (since anything covering the white part would make it not read as a trans flag anymore).

Ooh, tell me more how I don't understand as an openly Bi woman living in the Bible Belt. No one's threatening your right to exist. They asked a question, directly related to the thread. Maybe give people the benefit of the doubt for like half a second instead of shooting yourself in the foot by being dismissive.

@ far Yeah, I kinda shorthanded bi=all cause I didn't wanna get too wordy. I am fairly familiar with all the terms, but what you're describing sounds like biromantic? Right? But I guess since there's no flag for that (at least not on Subeta) the bi one works. I get where you're coming from. Thanks for the breakdown. I wasn't thinking about the whole sexual=/=romantic angle.

[edit] Anyway, much as I love pointless arguments on the internet, this totally is derailing the thread so maybe I should roll out.

Unfortunately, Subeta hasn't made a demisexual flag and a lot of people are not familiar with this spectrum. We are also living that weird asexual erasure and it's even harder to explain how asexualism isn't just black or white. Biromantic is not demisexuality. If we go straight to the definitely of biromantism: a person who is romantically attracted to two sexes or genders. Romantic feelings are not sexual feelings. If I refer to my own information, I am (rarely) sexually attracted to women and never to men. I can have romantic feelings for both genders, but am more inclined towards women. It doesn't make me a lesbian, just like a bisexual folk is bi even if they like their opposite gender more than their own.

We also got a flag too!

It's my pleasure to help really. I don't feel like your questions were attacking me at all. We all have a point of view and as long as we can respect each other ... All is good. @ Archer

ps: Subeta why not make a demisexual flag too :O?!

Someone unironically said "noah fence" to someone asking a question and people are defending that? Y I K E S

Yes, people can google but it's also okay to ask in this thread. If you didn't want to answer you literally did not have to. You chose to take the time out of your day to scream at someone and say cringey stuff like "noah fence."

Countdown to more cringey "it's so hard, you don't understand, they literally forced me to answer. I couldn't just ignore the question if I didn't feel like answering it."

"Use Google" isn't a solution - it took me an eternity to come out as asexual because I didn't feel I fitted the definition of asexual, even though I did. Talking to people made me realize that hey, what I'm living is normal, it's not linked to my autism, or anything else.

Google is only a solution when you have NO ONE to talk to. We're here, we're discussing things.

To people who actually gave the answer to the question youngexplorer pinged me to, thanks a lot. I was away that evening, and to be honest....even when I came back, the "noah fence" debate really soured me - I was SUPER HAPPY to be pinged and asked that question, because it means that someone had legitimate interest in what I had to say concerning aromantic and agender flags.

And then, I see that someone decided that the question I came back to answer was deemed "NOT WORTHY" to be asked.

Please don't.

If I made this comment, it's because I WANT to talk about that kind of thing, because maybe, what we got to say about it, the experiences of agender or aromantic people, they can help people realize that maybe they fit under that umbrella. Or maybe they're not quite there, but identify as demiboy/demigirl/demiromantic/demisexual and I think that it's a seriously good deed we do for the world.

A lot better deed than just referring people to Google.

If you are "tired" to answer these questions, just don't! Let someone else that is more than willing to do so talk about it, because it might be super important for them to help people understand!

I'm so sorry for not answering your question sooner, but yup, the people who told you that aromantic means no drive or desire for a romantic relationship, and than agender is a designation for nonbinary people who just do not identify as male or female.

I dig the flags, though I'll prob only be using the standard rainbow one. :P Big fat vote for letting HAs hold two flags!

As for the whole "UGH, just look it up on Google ? " discussion...

Look, I get being pissed at people for not taking your identity seriously, but c'mon. That kind of reaction is a big reason why I don't want to ask people questions despite still trying to figure myself out.

There are a lot of labels, flags and identities, and to someone who's not in the know about it, they can get confusing and feel like they're overlapping. If I start asking questions, someone somewhere is going to go ballistic on me because I dared to ask a question about their identity - because I asked for their definition of that identity instead of reading an article. Their definition. Because maybe I wanted to talk to a person and get their view on things instead of reading a sterile, dull article that I have trouble focusing on. But because of how various identities have been mocked in the past, there's a good chance that the person I've asked is going to feel like my intention was scrutinizing and dissecting their identity for the sheer purpose of making fun of them, so they'll get defensive. They feel angry and hurt, I feel anxious, bad and ashamed and I don't want to ask questions any more. Nobody wins.

It's important to remember that nobody comes with an instruction manual. It's not okay for people to make fun of others for their identities, but it's also not okay to snap back at people who just asked questions that weren't directed directly and solely at you, and that you are under no responsibility or obligation to answer. If you're upset and angry and don't want to explain things, that's okay! You don't have to answer them, even if you get pinged. It's okay to walk away and let someone else answer the question.

Just wanted to add my thanks to the staff artists for the current flags, and should they decide to add a demisexual flag in the future, my support for that as well. :)

It is no one person's job to teach other's about their identity. You are not responsible for teaching people about your identity! The great thing is posed a general question that you didn't have to answer (as it wasn't directed at you). Obviously there are people here willing to elaborate and explain THEIR definition of these identity terms (as even our most "well known" terms like gay/les/bi have can have confusion).

Perhaps they wanted to know how different people identify and why. I'm queer, identify as gay for the sake of cis/het people, but am much more complex. Sure I'd love to elaborate! Google can have some misinformation and other's definitions aren't necessarily mine. Thanks for taking an interest in me and my identity!

That's what pride is about. Learning about one another, sharing stories, fighting for equality. Not alienating people, even the "ignorant" (which I don't think youngexplorer is).

Thanks for the flags and for the opportunity to have these conversations (and to teach others more about our community) !

There are so many different types of asexuality (demisexual, grey/graysexual, etc.) and people feel so differently about it that it's important to hear several points of view on it. Yes, people can google and read different POVs on it but they can also ask here and... again... if you don't want to answer you don't have to.

I'm sick of people asking me about stuff irl when I'm just talking to them. People will see my cane and start interrogating me about my illness and they'll also give me "advice" and it's annoying af. They do the same thing about my identity once they find out I'm nonbinary. I can't easily get away from that irl because you can't just x out of an irl chat lol There's social conventions that prevent me from being like "nah I don't feel like answering 100 questions even time I meet new people." But on a forum? Just ignore it if you don't want to answer. You're not forced to answer anyone.

There's no excuse for the poor behaviour some people have shown in this thread. I'm still rolling my eyes at "noah fence" in particular though because that is such an amazingly cringey thing to say. I don't even like the "cringe culture" shit because most of it's just being ableist and pointlessly nasty but just... how can someone over the age of 12 think "noah fence" doesn't sound incredibly cringey and childish?

Then don't answer the question. It wasn't even posed to you. I understand the answer fatigue - I have experienced it myself - but you literally could have just looked at the question, went 'ugh', and moved on with your day, and let someone else who wasn't fatigued answer the question.

I'm sorry you get asked so many questions. I don't experience the father luckily, I just see it as another opportunity to educate people and gain a potential ally. Although I love fighting so I'll even respond to homophobes (and it's easier for me as someone who presents as a cis male in public).

I worked on a LGBTQ resource for the government with some of my students. one student had googled definitions for various identities and we decided against those definitions and instead discussed how these labels don't necessarily encompass an identity properly and we had students that identified with each label discuss what it meant to them. That's the great thing about being queer is you don't have to fit in a box.

Excuse the crap grammar and punctuation. I'm on a phone and have far fingers.