I would be lying if I said I wouldn't be a bit upset over my pet names no longer being unique. That being said though, I also realize that there isn't really a reason for it other than my own pettiness and selfishness about the hours I put into applications/name clearings. I'm sure I'll get over it in a few months, lol.

I think the major question for this would be: how many members of the existing pet community would it alienate vs how many new members would it attract/how many existing members would get into pets? Tbh, I feel like a lot of people who are willing to spend money on pets are already part of that community (& many of them already have desirable names), so I dunno how many existing members a measure like this would convert (correct me if I'm wrong, of course!). And I think pet site membership is decreasing in general, so I dunno how many new members this would attract. That's just my general impression though, and I have no statistics to back that up.

It feels shitty to say, but maybe instead of thinking about this as "what is the 'fairest' thing to do", it would be better for staff to think of this as "what would be the best way to retain/attract active, CSC paying members?" Subeta is a business at the end of the day, and it wouldn't make sense for them to do something that would alienate a lot of people that currently pay into it. Of course, if the statistics show that implementing this measure would end up generating more active, CSC paying members, then great! I will put my support behind non-unique pet names then (even if it's a little bit reluctantly, lol). :)

I listed those sites because unique names are not revolutionary (hence the quote above my list), not because I was using them for pet name feature examples in relation to this. All the sites listed have died for their own reasons. I was just pointing out that Subeta isn't... well, unique for using the unique name system. You seem to have a habit of jumping things before reading into them. x: And being extremely dismissive at times.

The thing with non-uniques and drama... then drama mongers can at least get the name they want. Some people will look to bitch about anything they can get their claws into because they thrive on that. So yes, it will create new sorts of drama, but that's just unstoppable either way. They'd lose the chance to bitch that "so-and-do got this name" and instead look for silly things to go after. That's no threat unless they stalk you for things to report and I know people do that now already, for any given reason they want, not just pets. At least with non-unique names, there wouldn't be any reason to get someone frozen for the sake of names since there wouldn't be any clearings. lmfao

[edit] Adding on about drama, a lot of that list seems like its stuck on the idea of redlight and greenlight features being the done deal, which doesn't exactly support the argument. What about other methods that were suggested?

[edit] ANOTHER EDIT but this time in relation to pet sites and them dying out -- I think it's because virtual pet sites aren't thriving anymore. Sims like Flight Rising are different. I talk to some FR people who have never gotten into sites like Neo, Subeta, etc and yet they're super into FR. Understandable because it's considerably a different genre. So it's not, "oh this site is dying out because of x feature" really? Pet sites just aren't a big deal anymore overall. My two cents on that aspect.

Sorry I keep adding in things, I just woke up and I'm a groggy disgusting mess. orz

i'd never support this and i really hope subeta doesn't implement anything of the sort. i do not care about ids. i know some people here are just like: "man who cares about the names? it's more fun to collect ids anyways!" but i have legitimately never cared about when a pet was made or when it's birthday was. so as someone who is JUST here for the names, why would i want this. my names aren't even that good but i've struggled to get some of the names i do have. yes, it sucks to miss out on a name, it's happened to me more times then i can count but at the end of the day theres more names out there. i've spent hundreds on getting name changes / new slots just to snag names i wanted. yes, it'd be great to get some of the names i missed out on, but the thought of ppl having my names just annoys me. call me selfish or whatever but it's really not something i'd like to see. anyways, also, its fun to just get inspired by a name you randomly find in the ac or on the adoption board. no thanks!

So, just because someone cares about IDs apparently now officially means I don't care about pet names?

Like just because I like one thing that literally does not matter at all (ID is in no better than ID#945086495) in any way shape or form, does not mean I don't care about names? I have spent a great deal of time and money renaming pets and swapping names around on said IDs. I have left work early, I have lost sleep, I have taken a break from work to sit outside by my car refreshing on my phone to get names for potentially myself AND for others.

Bold to assume just because someone likes low numbers because they're neat means they hate names and don't care about them.

I don't support this, and really it is because I'm kind of petty, but they are MY pets, and literally the only thing that keeps me here. TBH, I'd adopt them all out and move on with my life if this happened. I have put SO MUCH into them and as an adult, I don't have the time to play this site for 8+ hours a day anymore. Sometimes I can't even make it on at all, so if the one thing I have any pride left in is taken, then I have no motivation to return.

I don't mean this to read like I'm threatening to leave, just that I've put so much time and effort and real money into getting my names, that I would honestly be heartbroken if I saw someone running around with them - like Lei, who is my muse and the main character in a novel series I have been working on for 10+ years now. If anyone had his name, I would lose my shit - petty as it is - because he means so much to me.

That and, fuck I would want a refund for the probably at least $1k real USD i have put into it over the years.

My feelings on this are... complex. Generally speaking, I support keeping unique names. It's entirely selfish, and I know that. Certainly, there's names I want and have been watching for years that I could have through this, but I dunno... I like having unique names.

I also like the convenience of being able to type subeta.net/pets/petname (ESPECIALLY, when linking multiple pets) without needing to navigate a few pages to copy a link. I would hate to see that taken away.

Additionally, I don't think unique names are a prime reason for low user retention, and I also don't think they're necessarily the fault for nasty drama and broken friendships (it DEFINITELY sucks, but that's a result of people being shitty, not the system itself imo). I 100% think people would still find a way to be shitty over it.

I do like 's suggestion of nicknames though. :)

Well, no, the nasty drama and broken friendships derive from people being shitty over unique names... because of unique names? That's the reason for that specific drama.

(and anyone else threatening to demand a refund) You realize that by buying CSC, you're agreeing sales are final*? You spent that CSC. You got use from that CSC. Subeta is, as mentioned before, pretty good about compensating their users as best they can (but with the content they have on-site). You can't demand full compensation for things that you've gotten use from already, even if digital goods. It's unreasonable, illogical, and just not feasible.

• Except in the case of system errors, mistakes, etc. Staff discretion stuff that happens before you spend the CSC you've gotten.

okay so i've been lurking this board and something keeps getting brought up here and there that baffles me: people saying they'd get absolutely tilted if their unique names (particularly real name names) were no longer unique. like.... i understand if you put a lot of hard work into your pet, catching the name, etc., but with compromises like the nickname suggestion that someone posted earlier, your hard work wouldn't be erased just because someone else now has a pet that has the "same" name?

my name is alex. do i wish i had the pet alex? yes. do i wish i had the UN alex? yes. am i particularly irritated that i don't? no, not really, because just cause that's my name, it's also an extremely common name that hundreds of thousands of people all over the world have, and staking claim to an real name and saying you don't want people to have pets that are also named [insert real name here] is a tad... eh?

especially if people who want duplicates of certain real names want them as tribute pets to family members and pets that have passed away. i would love if i could have a memorial pet for my cat, but his name is taken by someone who is active, and we never had any particular nickname to call him by. so in plain terms i'm a bit SOL unless i asked the current owner, and i'm not at all guaranteed or obligated to be given that pet by them.

idk that's just my line of thinking with the whole thing, i'm gonna go back to lurking

@ Malachi Yeah, I'll be the first to admit that my people skills are... really not the finest. If I come across as a dick, I'm genuinely sorry. I'm trying and I want to contribute to this discussion because it's a really important thing to a lot of users (me & my friends included), but sometimes I can't gauge myself well enough without someone else going "hey yeah, that thing you said? that thing's not sounding good and can be read the wrong way. maybe change it?". I appreciate you pointing it out though, and I'll try to do better.

Yup, and it's not unique for implementing a non-unique name feature either because two of your examples had that switch happen. Though I don't know what the result of it was or how it was handled or how bad the fallout was (if there was any). I'm curious about that, but I'm not a member on either of those sites. I was stating that a lot of those sites are gone, on the verge of dying or doing really poorly so they kind of make poor examples regardless (at least to me). :'|

ALSO yes @ the pet site market dying. That's definitely happening. idk if you eyerolled at my ping (probably did, can't blame you. textwalls are more fun to write than they are to read), but yeah I kind of went a teeny bit wordvomit about that topic too.

If someone hates someone else's guts to the point of trying to get them frozen over a petname, then the petnames are just a means to an end, yes. It's one less way to get someone iced and one less way to be shitty toward them for "stealing" your names, but it's also not cutting back on fodder to make them feel unwanted and make their life miserable in other ways, if someone's really that determined to be a dicklord. Non-unique petnames in theory equal a rise of creativity, which equals more fodder for the really determined shit-stirrers.

For other suggestions, I want to say that nicknames are sort of already a thing, but like I've said earlier on the topic, I'm waiting for ticket clarification.

For other ways to stir up unnecessary shit unrelated to petnames... Pick a random page out of the tumblr drama handbook. Seriously, pick a page. Any page. People who are determined enough and dislike another user enough will reach for anything to stir up shit. The seas of drama bullshit are too deep to safely sail, captain.

People will find different ways to be shitty. Friendships have also been broken over CWs and I've no doubt that someone reported someone else for "tracing" their CW design, stealing their concepts, ripping off copyrighted work, or something else just to be petty and feel better about themselves.

Also, good morning!

Eh, I guess I just don't get the sentiment of "only I can have my names because they're special" or "if names were free to everyone, then only having good IDs would make me better than other people"

I just don't see this being the case for most users. Right now, if someone gets a great name in a clearing... sure, that name is already special by default. You've done it! You have the only Owen on Subeta. Six months down the road, if Owen is still sitting there as naked as the day he was made, you've still got a thing people want, so it's special and 'valuable' to you.

If everyone could have a pet named Owen, the real distinguishing factor would be what you do with that name. Mine is a forest spirit, but maybe someone else has a character who's is a barista, or they want a fanpet for the sexy guy from Jurassic World. What makes any particular Owen special now is the blurb on their profile, the layout, overlay, TC, and whatever else you do with it. And if someone just wants to have the pet Owen and leave it blank, that's also fine! But if they want to stand out from the crowd, they'll have to invest more than just the time needed to refresh a page at 3:00 on a single day. Whether that Owen has a low ID or not isn't really going to matter to most people.

I also get that characters are precious to people. My Dorian is a character I've had for many years - I've written about/RPed him A LOT, built worlds around him, and spent an embarrassing amount of time contemplating his character depths. Building playlists, drawing and commissioning art, exploring AUs... I've got it real bad, you guys. |D

But there's probably other people out there who also have a Dorian they really love. I can't go around saying mine is more special to me than someone else's is to them. So while I put tons of money and years of my life into that pet (buying him expensive CWs, reading books, training him, buying his custom overlay, etc) I wouldn't deny someone else the chance to show me their character, too.

I like Subeta exclusively for characters and creativity. Hell, I've previously looked at the pets of just about everyone on this board - I like seeing what people create! And as I've stated in earlier posts, it's the potential, and the freedom of creativity that excites me about this idea.

Maybe some people like finding a weird obscure word to use for their OC on Subeta, but for a lot of people that ISN'T fun. It's frustrating and disheartening. A lot of people who are drawn to pet sites are artists, roleplayers, writers, etc - they already have a cast of characters they want to bring to the table. And yeah, you can name your pet "Disingenuously" when his real name is Logan but WOW is that irritating and really ugly to look at.

...I spent an embarrassingly long time trying to find a random word that wasn't taken to use for that example.

I realize that, and I wasn't saying anything about demanding one. I was just ranting. I meant to imply that doing something like this would be grossly unfair to members that did invest real money, and that I don't think there's really any way compensate for that because there would be no way of knowing exactly how much was spent, or who would be entitled.

I know I'm being petty, but I've been here 11 years and seeing 11 years of stalking names and lost days of work, etc to get them going to waste would seriously piss me off. I'm ok with not having the exact name I want. I can always make something else work if I want to make that character that badly, but I don't want to lose the novelty of owning the ones I already have - especially fandom names that would be a dime a dozen thing that no one would ever look at because there would be so many duplicates. You could do a really unique twist on a fandom character, only to have it go completely ignored because there would be 500 pets named naruto or something and no one would care enough to look at all of them, if the search even showed more than half of them.

Well, duh lmao???? Yes, it's the reason for that specific drama but that's not an inherent problem with the system itself (which was my point, but whatever) that's a problem with people being shitty and people are going to be shitty regardless and they'll find away to be shitty with a different system. IMHO it's not reason enough to change an entire system.

Oh I definitely don't think it's a primary reason to change the system or anything! If you look at my initial post, I say as much. The lack of bickering over names would just be an added bonus. People are already shitty about plenty of other things (CWs immediately come to mind, people get REAL vicious over those) but within the pet community specifically, name clearings create a lot of rifts and backstabbing. I'd be cool with them finding some other petty thing to hate each other over. |D

I've also spent an embarrassing amount of real cash on pet slots/name changes/etc., but I don't see the need for reimbursement. Free re-names would be very appreciated, but like said, the sales were final. I'd never go to a retail store that decided to make more copies of something 10 years after I bought it and demand reimbursement, just because I thought at the time that it would be unique forever.

But really, this is all hypothetical. I think before anything happens, a poll would be the best course of action. I would be really curious to see the results of it.

Also, let's not tell people that they're silly for finding pride in something that you don't personally find pride in. If you don't think unique names are special, that's cool, but plenty of other people do.

I am very, very against non-unique pet names, for the reasons others have already stated. I'd be extremely disappointed if they came to Subeta.

(FWIW I would be turned off if I joined a site like this and saw it had non-unique names. Not saying everyone would have that reaction, of course, but since the subject was raised...)

Not negative at all... unfortunately everything you said is completely true; I've been the victim of similar (not on here, thank god). People will be petty no matter what.

ah - this is a good point, too. Would be super annoying to have to copy/paste ID numbers all the time.

A little off topic but possibly worth mentioning:

I've been on this site for around 11 years now. But up until the last 2 or so years, I've had virtually no involvement with the pets side of things. And yet, despite that, I've still managed to snag a few really nice pet names just from the pound or getting lucky and finding a name that wasn't already taken. (In fairness, most of my pets have come from my boyfriend, who found the names himself and asked me if I wanted them, but that still happened within the last few years so I digress) my point here is that it is still plenty possible for newer users to obtain "rare" or "sought after" names if they're willing to put in the dedication and time - And also, honestly, get lucky.

Another point that keeps being raised is that there has already been a lot of drama around pet names. This is certainly true, but I'd argue that this more of an endemic problem with the site's user base - A lot more drama gets kicked up over things like CWs and the Shoutbox. Practically anything on this site can be a source of drama depending on the people involved. And in fact, I'd argue that this is actually a pretty strong argument for not implementing a non-unique names. If the drama can already flare up this easily, I shudder to imagine how much of a storm would occur from changing it this late in the game.

I'm not trying to say that the arguments in favour of this system are bad arguments. Many of them make a lot of sense, and I can empathise with the core desires behind them. But the most important thing to consider here is context. Subeta functions, and has functioned, in a specific way for a long time. Changing such a core element of it so late on could cause a potentially catastrophic upheaval of the playerbase. Considering the site population isn't really that large to begin with (I rarely see more than 1000 users on at one time) I feel like pulling something like this could be very detrimental to the overall health of the site.

If this thread is anything to go by, there are a lot of people who are already seemingly eager to get into fights over this topic (there's a reason I'm not directly replying to anybody here, myself), and right now it's only a hypothetical! Personally, I do not think the outcry will be worth it, I just don't. We can compare Subeta to other petsites all we want, and talk about potentials and ifs, buts and maybes, but I think it's important to look at the facts that we have available to us right now first and foremost.

Prediction - non-unique names would win in a landslide if we had that kind of poll.

The results would be closer to 50/50 if we only focused on people who are hardcore into pets, but the more casual people are, the more positive they'd be about getting names that were out of reach for them!

The only fact I care about is that the current clearing setup is hurting the site - not just for people who like pets - but for everyone, the moment a desirable pet is set to clear, and I feel like non-unique names would allow less stress on the servers.

That's literally it.

My reasons to support it aren't based on "Oh, I'd get the names I couldn't get before" but just...based on getting the site to stop being unreliable and laggy. Right now, I don't see how the current system is productive and helpful anymore - Subeta is unstable enough as it is!

Culling the need for intense refreshing by making unique names obsolete would help the servers, and this is what is worth it to me.

Again, I totally get people who have had X name for ten years, and do feel special about it! I can totally get why you wouldn't like your achievement to be made trivial, but there are workarounds to fix that - either by putting the date your pet got the name on your profile as an official site, or with a cute little star, to show that YOUR pet is the original one.

Meanwhile. the workarounds to stop the site to commit sudoku whenever cool names are clearing aren't as easy to think about.

EGADS, NO. ONE FEAR. ONE FEEEEEEEAR.

This gives artists and established pet people a MASSIVE edge over newcomers. Yes, it's going to go and encourage creativity, but we know that after the novelty wears off, it's gonna be the same bunch of people applying and getting the best names because they had more experience with apps, or have better art.

As the OP who started this fiery conversation (I'm almost sorry I brought it up at all ngl, I feel bad for making people uncomfortable ;;;; ) I want it to be known that even I am not 100% for non-unique pet names. Let me clarify -

I only brought it up originally because I'm concerned about Subeta's relevancy and future as a pet site; I was actually thinking about looking at other pet sites (with non-unique names) to join, because I'd love to have complete freedom with pet naming, so it got me wondering how many people feel the same way about Subeta, too. (Probably not many, to be fair.)

So my support for non-unique names is very situational. Obviously it would cause a huge divide in the pet community here, and potentially many well-established, paying users would leave in protest. If Subeta would start to lose revenue rather than rake more in from new user retention, then I'd rather Subeta stick with the current system. If it's likely to be a better business model with non-unique names attracting new, paying players, then that's where my support will go. The problem, of course, is that there's no telling if it'll be a better business model until we actually try it... unless staff has some way of predicting the outcome. No normal Subeta user is privy to that information, so everyone on this thread is doing guesswork.

Remember to be kind to each other, btw everyone! We're all sensitive about our pets and love them all for different reasons, so insinuating that some people don't love their pets as much as others do, and using that to justify one side over the other, is uncool. /o

[edit] So if you're wondering why I started this forum thread even if I'm not 100% on-board with switching to non-unique pet names, it's because I think it's a conversation worth having. As ugly as it might be, this conversation should be had for the sake of finding a solution, once and for all, to put any concerns or questions to rest. Even if that means that the solution is to keep everything the same.