Please show me where in this thread anyone has said anything anti-vegan? bc as far as I've noticed, every post here is talking about specific foods and their impact, not veganism or vegans as a whole. Saying agave can be unethically sourced isn't some slam against vegans or a personal attack. There's a ton of vegan foods that are wonderful and there's tons of vegans who have cruelty free lifestyles. The point is just that cruelty free and vegan/vegetarian aren't synonyms.

Also where do you see anyone advocating in favor of factory farms here? I'm certainly not the only one who mentioned buying from local farmers with happy animals, vs factory farms.

I didn’t say anything about anyone here advocating for factory farms. If it seemed as if I did, then I wasn’t being very clear. I was stating that instead of bashing veganism, people could focus their energies on the supposedly mutual goal of ending factory farming. If you aren’t vegan, I wouldn’t expect you to notice all of the anti-vegan sentiment. We have vegan cartoonists who have a pretty good time with all of it, though, so I’ll probably just go and giggle at those, instead of trying to point it out to anyone. But, I wonder if you’ve noticed that there are people who’ve posted here and in other threads about how offended they are that vegans call themselves “cruelty-free” on some of their merch, but I am the one supposedly taking things personally. It’s silly for me to respond to these posts and pings, because no matter what I say, I’ll be seen as the unreasonable one. If you ever want to see a room full of people turn into registered dietitians or environmental scientists, mention the word vegan. In the early days of my veganism, I found it really annoying and now I find it hilarious. And that’s really why I keep replying to these things. 😏

If your country is taking active steps to eliminate cruelty to animals, that’s awesome! I do apologize for saying “this country.” I was referring to the US and while we do have communities trying to make a difference where they can, animal and plant agriculture is overwhelmingly dominated by factory farms.

Nobody is targeting you specifically. We are merely all having a discussion in this thread. I praised that you don't support these factory farms, that's a step in the right direction. i don't support them either. And I'm glad you vote, we need more people to vote instead of being apathetic or treat it like a joke.

But even if you or I are part of a thousand or a hundred thousand citizens that doesn't buy from factory farms, there's still more people that do. That's not even taking into consideration of possible exports. Same with voting and politicians; they may promise out to wazoo that they'll make a difference, but in reality, they may not be able to due to various reasons. We're called a minority for a reason.

You have to excuse my nihilistic attitude. Reality and adulthood has beaten that idealistic youthfulness out of me. I admire your idealism, and hope you never let that get beaten out of you like it did for me. Just remember, we may not agree on some aspects of vegan/vegetarianism, but that shouldn't stop us from having a relaxed discussion in trying to understand one another. These days, with the Internet and media able to filter out views we don't agree with, it hinders our ability to have normal discourse on subjects like this. We get too set in our ways and can't keep an open mind to the other side of the argument.

As for the vegan tee and cruelty-freeness, I have to agree that you can be omnivore and support cruelty-free for all animals. That's the criticism being addressed here, that it's not just vegans or vegetarians that support cruelty-free for livestock. It's less of being offended and just pointing out how misleading it sounds.