Are you saying Oatmeal isn't worth the time and effort? D: D: but look at that face

(also I cannot reply to so much hyperbole in a post, sorry D: )

I'm going to assume you were partially talking about my post since I don't recall any of the others talking about perspective and shading. I absolutely did not mean that you had to draw something perfect and detailed. Basic perspective would have included drawing a dot and connecting lines from that dot to your house with a ruler. Actual good well done perspective can be hella fucking hard. Never would I have expected a perfect well done perspective house with detailed accurate shading.

The point of my post and the reason I brought those two things up was because, as you can see from the response this contest has gotten, just drawing a box with a triangle on top doesn't give the impression that you really tried with the project. It doesnt even give the impression that you had fun with it. Maybe you did. Maybe you struggled with that for hours. But we can only judge your picture based on your finished project. We aren't watching you to make sure that you didn't just throw something up at the last minute. We don't know if that was your best. We don't know if you have limitations that stop you from doing more. We only have that picture and description to go on. A badly drawn picture with incorrect perspective and shading in all the wrong places would have given the impression that you sat down and thought about what you were doing. A box and a triangle with notes about where Oatmeal would have slept and ate would have given that impression. Thoughts about the kinds of things Oatmeal would have liked would have given that impression. Some people took extreme liberties and had fun. Some of the houses had gardens. There was at least one that was eco-friendly. Maybe Oatmeal doesn't need a castle or a subterranean lair. But all of those things give the impression that that person wanted more than the participation prize. I personally liked the ones where he lived on mountains.

A lot of people are jumping from one extreme to the other. You're not either a professional or a lazy moocher. There's craploads of in-betweens. If you didn't take the time to learn art stuff in the month you had, it doesn't make you lazy. Is that what my post implies? Because that's not what I meant. Nobody expected a fucking Michelangelo level of skill put into this.

[edit]Maybe we should stop with the drawing contests and do something else. Liking baking or making something out of leaves or something.

This has been an interesting thread to read. I have a few thoughts.

I actually thought this was a good system for voting. The biggest change I'd like to see next time is a counter that tells me how far along I am in the number of entries. It was a serious exercise of patience to remain focused not knowing how many more there were to go. I really appreciated being able to save an entry to come back to it later. I agree with the person who said that it might be fun to have a sort of Honorable Mention (or perhaps People's Choice) so that people can pick one that may not have been totally habitable for a goat, but that made you laugh or was clever in some way. Oh, and I liked that each artist was given the opportunity to explain their vision with a description, and using that gave an advantage over those who didn't, especially if it wasn't easy for them to convey it visually.

I'd like to clarify that vetting is not done arbitrarily. I think people sometimes look at vetting the same way they do voting, and this is simply not the case. Voting is arbitrary based on what each person likes--you can see even in this thread the differing opinions and what people like and don't like and how their voting was done. Vetting is not arbitrary and is therefore not done to eliminate "bad" artwork. It's done to eliminate entries that don't meet the guidelines of the contest to begin with. It is also an inexact process, especially when you have hundreds (maybe thousands) of entries to go through and you don't have unlimited staff or unlimited time with which to do it. Things will get missed, it's not purposeful or personal, it's just how it is. Entering this kind of contest is an exercise in two things: 1) reading and following directions (non-arbitrary) and 2) learning to be okay with the fact that not everyone will understand your vision (arbitrary). What this means is that if someone submits a green rectangle with a black box overlaid on it, as long as it fits the guidelines for the contest (correct media, no copyrights images, anonymous, etc.), it's in because it's following the rules of entry submission--whether it wins is then based on who many other people see and agree with that person's vision. But, if someone submits a green rectangle with a black box overlaid on it and signs it in the corner, it's disqualified during the vetting process because it's violating a rule of entry submission.

On the topic of vetting entries and maybe making it more exact, I don't know if something like this might be possible, but a solution to that could maybe be to gather/interview a group of Subeta community members for the next contest and select some who are willing to relinquish their vote in exchange for helping to take a first pass at vetting contest entries solely on compliance to guidelines to help sort things before staff takes a look. The compliance things they look for would be things like: Is this using copyrighted images? Is this using the correct media? Has it been "signed" by the artist and therefore not anonymous? Is this relevant to the topic or just a totally random image from a photo site? And so on. Subeta staff would have the final word, but this could help them sort through things as a first go. Just a thought.

Also, on a final note, I'd just like to say that when I voted, my criteria wasn't "Is this an amazing piece of artwork?" It was "Was this thought through and did it make sense for a goat and based on what I know of hobby farming?" I saw plenty of arguably amazing ones that made no sense to me for a goat. And, I saw plenty of rough drawings that showed a well-thought-out home for Oatmeal that had a place for food and water, high places for Oatmeal to climb and jump around on, shelter from the elements, comforts like a blanket/straw/pillow, a garden, supplies for people to write their worries on, some elements of other Veta buildings and grounds, and other details. Since these are the things I value in a home for Oatmeal, those are the kinds of values I based my votes on.

I think weeding out completely non-serious entries that are just stock photos is a good idea. If someone did any work on it at all they should be allowed, though.

I don't like the semi-targeting I've seen about entries that might have been serious but aren't considered up to par. I got the impression that some of the submissions might have been from users who are quite young, and still working on their art skills. Subeta allows users as young as 13, after all. Some people are child art prodigies, but that's rare, most people need time to develop their skills.

Just downvote and move on if you don't like something. Some things don't need to be said, because they don't really serve any helpful purpose. An anonymous art contest isn't really the right environment for constructive criticism, IMO.

If someone is looking for art feedback, they can post their entry after the contest and ask what people liked or didn't like about it.

(Note: I didn't enter the contest, so I'm not personally upset about anything.)

Ah, thanks for reminding me of that. lmao After I saw those I was kind of groaning to myself because of what happened to my work. I could have saved myself the trouble and spent an hour or so using The Sims to make McGoat Mansion. The few days of work went byebye thanks to my cat (my fault for leaving it where she could get to it). That's why mine is kind of lacking in some features. I had a few things I wanted to update and add. Oh well. I still like my design and did it for fun.

I hope I was vague enough there on what my entry is. :x

I'm gonna go ahead and call y'all on this. It was clearly stated that the entries had to be digital or physical drawings, or 3D models made by the user. So how did entries get in that clearly used stock photos, items not built by the submitter, in-game building creation from several different games, etc get through?

I'm surprised that the entries weren't vetted pre-voting stage, the contest was launched almost a month ago giving staff the time to go through the submissions.

I don't even care about the "quality" of the art, I'm pretty sure people who were busy or simply uninspired just wanted the participation prize and that's fine but using clipart pics and googled images is against copyright laws and should not have been accepted in the first place.

it's not just the flower either, I know I saw an animal crossing image in there!!! My one suggestion is to have a status bar to show you how many images are left and a back button so you can re-view them (with numbers so you know what to look for) BUT make it so that once you cast your vote that's it. no changing your mind a million times.

Maybe a good idea for a future contest would be to have all the rules clearly marked on the submission page - having them dotted around in various different forum threads / news post comments is only going to make it harder for people to actually follow those rules for their entry.

I didn't see any mention of not being able to do a photomanipulation for this contest, simply because I didn't read the forum threads / news post comments / wherever the question was asked. Something like that should've been clearly added to the submission page from the start, which would've given a good reason to weed out any entries that didn't follow the rules before we got to the voting stage.

I'm all for a vetting process as long as it simply removes any entries that don't follow the rules (whether that's a picture that clearly isn't a shelter, or one that has copyright issues), and doesn't remove any qualifying entries because of 'quality' (especially for a contest where staff are going to be drawing the winning entry anyway, so it shouldn't matter if we couldn't do perspective / shading / fancy effects) ;)

I'm pretty sure a couple of images looked like they were scanned from out of a book.And when I did see images that looked like they were stock photos,I skipped most of them.There was one entry where that looked like Oatmeal and his house were surrounded by a fire.I don't even get that one.How did that one get through?I thought this was design Oatmeal a home,not show him in immediate danger.I wish the staff would do a better job of weeding out the ones that are stolen images and are rule breaking.

omg I remember that one! I thought it meant the house was in hell X____x

Yes, that one irritated me as well.

And don't get me started on all those cans and cereal bowls that were quite disturbing from my point of view. Plus, I'm quite sure that some entries copy&pasted Oatmeal and their sign from here... '^^

Man, reading this board has been a horror show. It's a design contest not a freaking art contest oh my god. Of course I agree that photos, etc shouldn't of been accepted, but at the end of the day, it never said you had to be good at art?

Some of the attitudes here... 😞

And I actually draw sometimes lol, so don't think I'm taking it personally.

I really wish I could just copy and paste Tris' earlier post about butthurt artists feeling personally targeted. I've read every single post in this thread and in the comments, and 95% of people are not punishing ANYONE for being a bad artist. Pretty much everyone is saying they voted on concept and idea, not artistic and technical ability. An entry would have to be illegible for the IDEA to get lost in translation - it has nothing to do with bad art. It's about EFFORT and CONCEPT. Some people vote for concepts that are functional, others that are whimsical and quirky, but they ARE voting for designs. In fact, a lot of people have admitted they didn't vote for well-drawn entries because they didn't like the design/it didn't suit the brief. But I don't think anyone is voting based purely on artistic talent, and I don't think anyone here is saying you shouldn't enter if you can't draw. Take 2 minutes, calm down, and realize that no one is talking about your specific entry - it's about people who blatantly put minimal effort in.

One of my favorites looked like absolute crap - all scribbles done in pencil on lined paper - but I loved that they included elements of German-inspired architecture, a couple cute little features that Oatmeal could enjoy, and showed the surrounding environment to give context. This person clearly couldn't draw for shit, but still came up with a solid entry. Compare that to someone who literally came up with 3 or 4 shapes layered on top of one another, and I mean - really? There's a difference between being a bad artist and just not giving a crap.

I was really excited for this contest as someone who wanted badly to enter but didn't have time, and I always love seeing everyone's creativity. But this was super disappointing, because I feel like users took advantage of the flimsy rules and the participation prize. It's not "wrong" per se, it's not against any rules, but it's sucky nonetheless.

I also think it would help a lot if the initial contest post had clarified that the winning entry would be re-drawn by a staff artist. And if they had reiterated that they're looking for concepts only, not finished pieces. In general, I feel like there should have been 1 post made about the rules from the onset - it seems like a bit of a mess to try to piece together what the rules were.

Some posts in this thread DID suggest staff weeding out entries that "didn't put effort in" which is why people are speaking against it. There's no way to fairly and clearly define "effort" because it's subjective. I agree the rule breaking entries should be disqualified, though. Otherwise, be it 5 minutes or 5 hours, technically everyone participated.

/shrug I don't have a horse in this race as I didn't enter, but there were plenty of good entries to vote for. Who cares if someone gets the participation prize for drawing a couple squares and a triangle in paint? Technically, they met the defined requirements.

Yeah, I'd say the rules should be clearer, but it apparently didn't matter if you followed the rules in this contest anyway, so it's a moot point. I didn't enter, either, but it's still quite frustrating that rule breaking entries are being allowed.

Any argument about vetting for something subjective is just wrong. Vetting doesn't need to decide if they're "good enough" or not, that's what the voting from the public is for. Whether it took the person 30 seconds or 3 hours, the point was to get an idea across, not specific artwork for the site; that will be the job of the Subetean artist. Some I voted for, "artistically" were less mind-blowing than quite a few I voted down because they just flat out made more sense for a goat habitat.

However, the vetting for rules flat out needed to be taken more seriously. (And hopefully be more specific next time, because I'm still confused if 3D models created in other games should be okay or not). If it's to be anonymous, it needs to be. If you can't include stock, and it's specifically stated, not in one place, but two, it needs to be taken seriously. I'm not talking about just that flower photo either, I'm talking about the oatmeal can and the people who used stock images, cropped them and arranged them on an image. It was stated (and has been quoted in this board multiple times now) drawn or 3D models, by users hand, not stock images, even if free.

I don't know how many people I've seen say "Well, if I knew we could do this, this, and this that were against the rules, I would have done it too to get the participation prize." That's not something I want to be reading, especially when, finally, there is a voting method I really enjoy and I don't want to be having to vote for even more entries next time, that were obviously against the rules.

That being said, I hope those who won't win but did put effort into creating things (like making the 3D models, or the vast amount of time that was spent on some of the art that I even marked down for idea reasons) really enjoyed making what they did. Even though there were quite a few with a lack of effort, there were quite a lot that you could tell put vasts amounts of time and effort into what they created. I really enjoyed being able to see all those entries and their work brought me smiles.

Yes to having a counter or progress bar that tells you how many entries you have left to vote for. But I didn't find the voting for this contest that tedious compared to past occasions. The single page idea worked well. It was clean and easy to focus on just one entry at a time. There definitely needs to be some sort of filtering for those that didn't follow the guidelines though. If it doesn't meet the contest rules, it shouldn't appear on the voting page. 'Nuff said. I however disagree that staff should be sifting through entries that don't seem "good enough" before we get to vote. Like other said, it doesn't seem like everyone would get a fair chance this way. Ideas and concepts are just as subjective as effort, imo. I feel like it's much better to let everyone vote for what they think is good (as long as the entry is valid).

I personally judged more on the originality and appropriateness of the design than just the quality of the art. Some entries had wonderful art, but pretty basic concepts. Others had less artistic quality, but a much better idea overall. It's awesome to see so many people without "great" artistic abilities having fun and entering the competition as well. Most people just do it to enjoy themselves and get a nice participation prize, and I don't see anything wrong with that...

I am glad the flower pic was removed but what about the bowl of oatmeal? The contest was to make a home for oatmeal the GOAT not the food so I really think that should be removed as well. I don't feel it is fair for people who don't follow rules to be rewarded.

I'm voting based on the creativity of the design, not necessarily the artistic talent... and you can tell when people really put effort into their entries. <3
Nothing creative is ever a waste of time.

But I've seen photos of actual livestock structures that could have come from anywhere... and Quaker Oat containers... (wtf?!) ooooooh, punny! And it gets old, so very, very fast! And I'm not going to have time to go through all the entries which disappoints me a little, but not as much as forgetting about it because my free time was consumed by the glory of Morostide. ALAS. :D

Fantasy houses are not against the rules. Goats don't live in castles or have fancy houses either. Should everything that's not appropriate housing for a real goat be removed? That wouldn't leave many entries left.

Also