This sounds like you're suggesting that users with a lot of money be penalized and earn less than other users?

Sure, if you haven't been following the conversation.

Less sP being generated = less sP (quantity) being replaced in peoples personal hordes when it's spent = richer users being brought into line (in value, not quantity) with poorer users. It effects everyone, it's not about taking the sP out of the system from just richer users, who aren't going to spend, it's about bring the OVERALL value of sP up.

What about the impact that has on new and not wealthy users?

We've still got to have something we want to spend it on. I've been here for 10 years, 7 months, 2 days so the sP has mounted up.

1. I've got more clothes in my wardrobe than I'll ever get round to wearing.

2. There's very little suitable for my pets' treasure chests these days. Vampires, black magic and demons have been more or less abandoned. I find Treasure Chests a bit of a pain as well. Edit Treasure doesn't have item hovers - if I want to check what's in a chest I have to open another window for the pet profile. It's much easier to keep things in my pets' treasure gallery which means that I don't need to buy extra treasure chest slots.

3. Battling - I don't find it much fun with arthritis. I've got scaling weapons which can be used up to Tier 11 and my battling pet is only Tier 5 at the moment. Battling, for me, is really just for the occasional plot which requires it.

4. I have no interest in collecting beanbags, plushies or trading cards. I wouldn't have any interest in collecting stickers either even if we could stick them in our own albums.

My GA ran out so I'm doing very little at the moment - I can't cope with pricing a lot of stuff by hand now so I've stopped doing most quests which give items. I'm currently making about 500K a day but I don't need to make any more because there's nothing I want.

I was the 24th richest user a month ago and I'm now the 25th even though my bank balance is a little bit bigger. I don't know what the people above me are doing to keep pushing me back in the ranking but I have no interest in trying to compete with them.

Oh yeah, I worded that badly, I agree with you totally, my friends and I have been discussing (read: complaining) of late that despite claiming a more 'realistic' style, everything is getting more cutesy. Got a darker themed pet? Well you're SOL. Which for a lot of people means not spending on their pets. The wardrobe is heavily focused on, but everyone isn't into the wardrobe etc etc... I used to LOVE working on my pets, but every update or new release puts me off more, particularly when people with darker pets get asked things like 'why would you do this???' when they win the PS, if that does go over almost entirely to user voting, there is even less of an incentive for darker-themes to be worked on because the site is growing more biased against them. I have Unfinished TCs already worth millions, even billions of sP, and I've given up, I see no point in continuing when the site doesn't encourage it -- even the few pets I DID have almost finished I've scrapped because the semi-recent changes to pet profiles broke them all and I'd have to pay out again to get them all fixed, and I can't see the point.

I like battling but it's still so clumsy I get bored very quickly. 'Battle again' doesn't remember anything so you might as well not have it. Hopefully the updates will change this, but as the only thing I'm putting csc/sp into regularly these days, it's still not making much of a dent in my income.

Collections I have random periodic busts of interest in, but not enough to make a drain in my income.

Now I get that I'm an outlier, I get most of my sP though my artshop, and to encourage people to spend REAL money on me I usually keep my sP prices comparatively higher, so what might take a quester a month or two to raise, I can do in two hours. Artists with a regular income on this site can do a lot better than others in the sP/csc department -- but I did start selling art here to raise sP for all the things I wanted, I used to struggle to make as much as I was spending, now I just see the numbers pile up and I spend nearly nothing, unless I hear a friend of mine wants a thing.

I'm currently 90th richest on site, and I'm not even trying. Hell I'm actively trying to stop people spending fake currency on my art and to spend real money (with an exception of this week cos my csc dropped lower than I liked but normally...).

I want to spend my sP, I technically have things I want to spend it on: pets, but the incentive to do so is so low, that it's stopping me, the idea of sinking that much time and effort into something that's just going to flop is a real downer.

But none of that means that the sP I have is really worth all that much. I'd rather have 10k and be able to buy as much as with 100k, simply because it's so much easier on the fingers to type out. Knowing I can blow 2billion in five minutes on almost nothing isn't a good feeling, I want that sP to be worth something AND to have something I want to spend it on.

My head is getting fuzzy now and I don't think I'm explaining anything properly. But basically for me the only value sP has is in how high I can make the number while putting in the minimal amount of effort. You're not going to get me spending it because there's nothing I want to spend it on, this makes it valueless to me as a user, and the high amount of sP in the system makes it valueless as a currency. This is a double edged problem, we need the sP to have personal and site-wide value. Less sP needs to be going into the system, and there needs to be more incentive to spend so that the value re-stabilizes.

The main issue I'm seeing is what appeals to the older richer users? If they were interested in spending on x, y and z they've either already done it or aren't interested.

[edit] The only thing I've REALLY been wanting was the gearshifter, which I got (yay) and spent idk... maybe 10-15mil scrambling to get all the crystals for, but I spent it all on other users. As much as I love the crystal shop for getting old items into the site, maybe the way it does it needs to be given some thought P=

- You explained things very well.

Have just thought of something else. People aren't going to spend their sP if they're trying for the Richest User achievement. I think this achiement was a bad idea along with the Richest User rankings.

The impact is less SP, but that SP retains a value, rather than losing half of its buying power within a period of 18 months.

Because yeah, it's cool if you have 100M, but if you can't buy squat with it, what's the point?

is a friggin treasure to this site.

Thank you. I'm amazed there was anything of use or interest in that post ;w;

Basically anything that encourages hoarding is a bad idea P= if there's too much of (x) on site (x) lowers in value (not to mention the load things like the shops etc... are putting on the servers, though that's being addressed now).

I've been trying to think of a way to maintain values. I've been playing on the Vox Populi servers a lot on Minecraft recently and of course in MC things break and/or need repairing, so even old 'rich' players on the servers need to maintain their little worlds, their tools, armour etc... even accessing the weekly raid bosses costs currency (two types of currency, 10 Conquest Tokens and 1000 voxels, voxels are the server's equivalent of SP but CT you only get from bosses, 1 per boss, so 10 isn't to be sneezed at -- I've said it once I'll say it again, make csc-sinks like overlays directly purchasable by sP as well or require some sP and some CSC and they'll take sP out of the system, there is no good reason not to use combos of currency). Managed to find 2 diamonds at a reduced by 70% chance? Congratz on your new sword... good luck getting that fully enchanted and keeping it fixed up... that's a long term goal in it's own right and an on going goal.

Subeta isn't really equipped for that kind of thing of course and I'm not expecting it to pull a Minecraft system out of it's arse. But Subeta does have an issue: once older users have what they want, they don't have to work to maintain it, so even rarer items don't have much on going value to the user expect sentimental value, it's all basically horde, sP locked up in item form or bragging rights. I think we'd all be pretty annoyed if our items just started vanishing that's not my suggestion here. I don't have a solid suggestion, but I do think something needs to be actively draining each user's personal resources in relation to what they have. Ye olde more money = higher taxes theory. Wooden sword? Common, cheap, easily fixed by the noobiest noob. But not very good. Diamond sword? Rare, expensive, got to be leveled up to maintain but very good. The diamond sword is an achievable goal, but you need to put in work to maintain that level, in return you do more damage and it lasts a lot longer.

If Subeta can work out some way to give the users goals AND require a certain amount of on going effort to stay at a level once it's been reached, then even older users still have something to engage them. The difficult bit is making it a drain on resources while not being frustrating or disheartening, the pay off has to work.

The sP problem still needs to be tackled from both ends, though. It's nice to think that my 4.5 billion could have more buying power in a year's time but if there's nothing I want to spend it on what's the point?

It's difficult thinking of ideas for how Subeta could achieve this. I don't think players would be very happy if their clothes needed repairing every so often, especially if they'd paid CSC for them.

That would be a good suggestion thread, to see what the community as a whole thinks. I don't have lots of ideas either, but so far, I think you're seriously on the right track.

I think that the idea of comboing SP and CSC to buy some stuff is pretty wise, tbh. Not just overlays, but perhaps in the last few days before retirement, it could be done with certain items.

Not things like collection (haha, but i do wish it worked that way) but things that have been there for a long, long time, and are about to go, so to motivate people into getting them NOW rather than waiting for Black Friday or something.

= 125 CSC right now

But, 2-3 days before its retirement, get down to like, 75 CSC + X M sp. (where X is > or = to the value of 50 CSC) Same with the rest of the set.

Also, make sure that this promotion doesn't clash with the cash shop refund policy

I don't collect anything except wardrobe, and the wardrobe items I collect (non-CSC) have to be ones with decent art, which means almost all of them are higher priced items. I do the quests, and I have been here almost five years, but I still don't have nearly enough sP saved for all the items I want. I buy from the advertising board, too, so that's even with a discount. Back to the original topic, I have been very disappointed by Shinwa's quests lately - I have no problem with ending the 'promotional' or 'temporary aspect of the quests, i.e. removing the double items, but I do have a big problem with her quests being more heavily weighted towards giving out worthless crap now. I do her quest every day and recently I have only gotten two decent prizes (a gold laurel and a Shinwas rose.) If I was a new user I would not stick around for long because it's too difficult now; I would feel I was going to be forever stuck in ugly clothes! Can Shinwa's quest please be weighted to have just as much chance of getting something decent as garbage?

Every item has the same chance of being given out.

I think there are 21 non-boosters, for 18 boosters, meaning that your chance of getting a booster is slightly below 50%. But yeah, Shinwa is not weighted in her rewards. I got three boosters out of three quests this week.

It's not difficult. You have to, like someone else said, look at what you're doing, because if the site keeps pouring SP, it's not going to be easier for newbies in the long run.

It is going to be easier to have lots of SP, yes, but it's not going to be easier to buy higher-end items.

If the quests are not weighted (thank you for explaining,) then I guess I have mainly just been unlucky in my prizes - though just now I finished her quest and got a Shinwas Key, so maybe my luck is turning around. Here's hoping!

Yeah, I did a quest to check and I got a 4th booster in a row. In my case, it was the Shinwa Soap.

But yeah, the reason why we get boosters less often is well, Shinwa just give out so much crap.

I wish her crap was at least revamped first (looking at you helmet and cape.)

if you really cant find things to spend sp on, then the site doesnt cater to you anymore.

This isn't real life where parking your money in an EF/401k/IRA/investments benefits you. There's no real benefit to being rich on subeta other than to be rich after a certain point.

It doesn't cater to a lot of people at the moment. There's a market for post-apocalyptic, cyberpunk and science fiction items and another for things relating to vampires, black magic and demons. My Life As A Blood Drinker indicates that the Lasirus is a vampire bat so why did the site abandon vampires? Relevant shops with a permanent stock of expensive items (like the MC) would be a wonderful sP sink for players who want something besides cutesy, boutique or zombie stuff. There's nothing wrong with cutesy, boutique and zombie stuff, of course, but it would be nice if the site branched out a bit.

This is why I'm not doing much now. I expect I'll keep going down in the Richest User ranks but that doesn't bother me because I'm not after the richest user achievement.

Anyway, back to Shinwa. The fact that staff suddenly realised that a temporary thing had gone on for two years had nothing to do with the amount of sP I've got in the bank.

While I understand why Shinwa was changed, I'm not particularly fond of it. It is hard for me to understand the idea that something was temporary but for the feature to exist for so long, and then suddenly change.

While I doubt there are conspiracies about the additional battling tier, I can't help but wonder if the shifts of Shinwa and Quentin were because people were progressing too quickly for their expectations. I have a issue with that because boosters help any pet. It just bothers me to see those go ploof when people some people actually do use them rather than sell them :/

That would be a good suggestion thread, to see what the community as a whole thinks. I don't have lots of ideas either, but so far, I think you're seriously on the right track.

I think that the idea of comboing SP and CSC to buy some stuff is pretty wise, tbh. Not just overlays, but perhaps in the last few days before retirement, it could be done with certain items.

Not things like collection (haha, but i do wish it worked that way) but things that have been there for a long, long time, and are about to go, so to motivate people into getting them NOW rather than waiting for Black Friday or something.

= 125 CSC right now

But, 2-3 days before its retirement, get down to like, 75 CSC + X M sp. (where X is > or = to the value of 50 CSC) Same with the rest of the set.

Also, make sure that this promotion doesn't clash with the cash shop refund policy

Maybe I'm getting too cynical about the site but I feel like most of a suggestions thread like that would be people complaining about having their stuff taken away ;P but if I have the time I might construct a tidier post, at the very least staff stand a higher chance of seeing it.

I hadn't seen that wig before... I can't imagine spending my pure csc on it, but a mixture? Hell yeah, less of a dent in my neat tidy csc number, and gets some of my sP off site? Combo-prices would get so much more out of me, because I do prioritize buying from site shops over user shops so my sP isn't just transferred from one person to another, this gets more difficult when the more interesting/higher quality art items are CSC only though...

Tbh I still say that refund policy is weird...

My only question would be - what sort of sP sinks would be appropriate? What would entice users holding on to large amounts of sP to spend it? If there's nothing of interest for people to spend on they're just going to keep on holding on to their sP.

I wonder how much sP has been taken out from the Antique Shop since it's installation. I definitely do second you in that it's not too viable.

And yes! I think the treasure chest changes probably helped tremendously with taking out sP (even though I'm still using the Millionaire Center for the achievements). I know you mentioned being able to bribe the Ruffie over at Ruffie Raffle for certain prizes - I'm not sure if anything over at the Ikurameendox (you know, that tree) is worth much but that could applied there, or at the sP Hustler (because of course he wants your sP!) Or something like a more expensive Mystery Box where sometimes you can get nothing/something cheap because the ley lines have failed?And you can get achievements for being let down by the ley lines? More expensive Subeautique clothing that needs no invitations/always stocked?

Basically smaller sP sinks that take out more each time so it feels like nothing, I guess.

My biggest gripe with this whole Shinwa things is the total lack of communication. Since I wander over on this sub-forum a lot I was able to read this thread, but I can't say the same for everyone.