I think these are two different things. Subeta's communication is as terrible as it has ever been, but I didn't mention that as something people should be thankful for ? However, it was always clear that the double item was temporary until boosters prices settle back down, they just let it go on for too long. I actually sMailed a couple weeks ago to remind her of that simple fact, and it apparently was then changed.

It served its purpose, they removed it. Shinwa still has a chance to giving out a free booster a day for doing nothing special from what you already do everyday. Pretty good to me!

Honestly, if it was so important staff forgot about it for like 3 years or whatever then they should've just kept it how it was.

First we get restocking "fixed," then we get Quentin "fixed," and now Shinwa too. So glad we've no real way to make a profit after all these "fixes".

^that logic hurts my brain.

If it wasn't meant to be a permanent fixture then it needed to be changed.

If you seriously cannot profit on Subeta then you are doing something terribly, terribly wrong.

I still easily make ~2.5m daily from quests and restocking so I'm not quite sure what you're doing.

So what about newbies? What about the newer players who can't sell CSC for cheap cash, who don't know how to restock yet, who don't get a hang of the games?

Quests are an integral way for newbies to earn some quick sP - if we nerf all the quests, or almost all of them, it's going to be almost impossible for new players to earn a nice hoard of sP, where they feel like they are able to buy things on the site. If they can't make any sP, why would they bother to stay?

Subeta is already confusing enough as it is. Quests are a good way for newer or inexperienced users to get new items and sP.

I still make a ton off of quests though. I did only a few sets of quests today and made a mil in just sP. And that is not even all the quests. And if you do Quentin and get (lets say 2 on average) amulets, you can sell those and make ~300k+ each or if you are into gambling you can turn them in. If you get shards, then technically you haven't lost anything since you got them questing and if you get at least one tome then that is another couple mil. And then sell the items you got from the quests...another good amount of sP. And then if you do wiz quests and use that to vend, then you can either sell that stuff or frag it and sell the crystals.

And then that isn't even taking the games into account. You can make 200k if you play caliph's tomb 10 times...I just cleared a board in less than 2 minutes. That is just one game!

I am not seeing how it is hard? I guess I am just used to neopets where you make 1k on a game 3 times a day, the quests suck and weren't really designed for profit and restocking is a joke because they cannot stop the autobuyers.

Yeah, a lot of quests (hello wizard) needs to lose the SP reward. Because, what't the point in making lots of SP if you can't buy anything worthwhile with it

The important thing is not how many millions of SP you have. The important thing is what fraction of the SP in the system you have.

We all were newbies. We all had to learn. Newbies are not an excuse to run the economy into the ground.

I'm totally not an economic person at all, so this is tough for me to understand, all the valuation of sP and all that.

But wouldn't it be disconcerting as a newbie to go onto the site and seemingly get nothing, while seeing items worth millions upon millions of sP in say, the Antique Shop?

(And Wizard - I love your sP rewards, I really do - but your tokens are already valuable - so I'm getting double value right now)

The Antique Shop is a luxury, and they're really a long term goal. Yeah, when I joined, the 2M for a Dark Matter Potion was a LOT and I had to save a whole week for that, doing all of my quests and all, but it was so worth it when I got it.

It's not going to be the first shop you'll see on site.

I mean, yeah, I know Louis Vuitton exists, and I know I need to save up for a long while to get some of that stuff. Or, I know Porsches are a thing. It sucks that they're not the affordable options for me, but someday, when I have enough money set aside, why not?

I understand what you mean by that - items in the Antique Shop are an extremely long term goal. But what about the smaller things? Things that we, as users who have spent more time on the site, think of as cheap?

If it's incredibly hard for newbies to earn much sP then why would they be compelled to stay and try to save? Subeta is already hard enough to navigate as a newbie as it is.

If goals don't seem attainable, if it doesn't seem possible to buy anything, why would I stay? Perhaps I'm being pessimistic about this. I think quests are great for newbies to get items and sP, to feel as if they can earn sP too and they can save up for those expensive things too.

What is the best option for you.

Have newbies earn lots of SP, but since everyone can earn lots and lots of SP, they can progressively buy less and less things as time go by, because there is just TOO MUCH MONEY IN THE SYSTEM and not enough ways to take it out, or have newbies make less SP, but this money can retain value and isn't just a number?

Look at Gaia's economy.

See, here's the thing about me - I'm not too knowledgable about economy. Hey! I'll admit it! I'm just concerned about the sP earning options for newbies, seeing as Subeta does need to attract new players if it wants to keep growing and evolving as a site.

In an ideal world, I think I'd like the second option - but how can we ensure that sP is going to retain value? I don't think that just nerfing quest payouts is going to help solve everything 100%, just like those "new restocking changes" that were supposed to do wonders for the economy but just... didn't really work out at all.

--

people like seeing large numbers in their sp banks, but dont understand it's all relative. if you have 100sp in a 1mil sp economy, you have the same purchasing power as having 100 mil in a trillion sp economy.

inb4 the zimbabwean economy. brb 100 trillion dollar notes

I think that there are at least 200 billionaires onsite, and in 2009, there were...a couple. Nowhere near 200, that's a fact. Making SP is easy and perhaps it's the issue - It's too easy!

We can assure that SP retains value by limiting how much enters the economy, and by giving people reasons to go and spend their SP, not large amounts at once, but by little slices, often.

Things like the treasure chest changes, the pet zapper change and such were really great ideas. Even more frequent and varied restocks in shops like the MC and SBQ can help. Sky's the limit concerning things!

The Antique Shop is more of a shop who can take money out of the system, but it's not as viable because of how high the prices are.

- I have an idea and I'd like your input on it mostly because I see you as the staunchest of the users saying that some quests need to drop the sP reward (namely wiz).

As we all know, Sarah is a newbie quest. At a certain point, you have made too much to do her quests though, and she cuts you off.

What would be the issue with setting a similar system in place, like that, for sP rewards on certain quests that already give pretty good prizes? Say you are new, you do Wiz quests and you don't have a lot of sP, so it gives you 20 tokens and a nominal amount of sP. Once you break the threshold of account worth, you still get the tokens, but you no longer get the sP with it.

Naturally it would have to be noted on the page, "Only newbies get sP from me!" but I'm not seeing where the issue might lie in that particular approach (if there is an issue at all really). Opinions??

Nah, I really don't think the Wizard needs to hand out SP at all. Tokens alone are really valuable, and that's the true treasure you get from the Wizard.

Your idea has nice thoughts behind it, but it wouldn't work, due to potential abuse. SP left on a trade are not taken into account in your account worth, so you can just park your SP on a trade, do wizard, get more SP and voila.

- That would have to be adjusted then. Shame that people do that too. (I also had no idea you could do that... here I guess I could have done Sarah's quests all along but oh well!)

Thanks for the feedback though ^^

[edit] You got a forum point while making a post! Check out the shop here!

Thanks forums :D

By all means limit the amount of sP that enters the economy but give more sP sinks for the rich first. Less money from quests isn't going to hurt the billionaires but it will be very discouraging for new players.

By all means limit the amount of sP that enters the economy but give more sP sinks for the rich first. Less money from quests isn't going to hurt the billionaires but it will be very discouraging for new players.

The problem is that any sinks meant to "hurt the billionaires" just end up pissing off the other 98% of the playerbase.

Take a look at the antique shop. There was an uproar about how people really wanted the items, but couldn't afford them. Nevermind the fact that these items were previously unavailable, so the massive price tags are still kind of a bargain, relatively speaking. The problem is that now most people see items that are juuust out of reach but still tantalizing enough to make it frustrating.

Smaller, long-term sP sinks will do just as much in the end, but they're more palatable and more accessible, even to the newbies.

But back on topic with Shinwa's nerf, I'm not so much bothered with the downgrade as I am with the lack of communication. Everyone takes a hit, so we're all still on even ground. It doesn't really change much economy-wise, at least not in my eyes.

I'm majorly annoyed by the fact that they forgot about it for two years and then changed it without notice. At that point it's no longer a "temporary" change, and no one outside of veteran battlers even remembered that news post. If a change makes something look like a bug from a player's perspective, then that change should be announced. :/

By all means limit the amount of sP that enters the economy but give more sP sinks for the rich first. Less money from quests isn't going to hurt the billionaires but it will be very discouraging for new players.

The problem is that any sinks meant to "hurt the billionaires" just end up pissing off the other 98% of the playerbase.

Take a look at the antique shop. There was an uproar about how people really wanted the items, but couldn't afford them. [...]

This is a good point, a lot of the billionaires on site aren't billionaires because they can't spent it, they're billionaires because they don't want to spend it. You might tempt one or two to part with their well earned 'cash' with high end SP sinks like the antique shop, but most are just going to keep sitting on their pile of gold. The only solution that might actually effect them is to raise the value of sP, if there is less sP in the system then everytime a billionaire does find something they want, when they go to quickly get back that pile of sP they had horded, it's harder. If they can only get back 100k for every 1000k they spend for instance their horde will get smaller until it's relative with the site. But there will be no 'quick fix' to this.