The spotlight should just turn into the fucking avatar spotlight we have on the front page of Subeta before you log in. Just make it randomise to any pet, whether it's finished or not. Shove it away where nobody sees it so staff don't have to worry about it. We're trying to suggest new things to encourage more interest and it's being met with the same excuses we've been seeing on site for years.

It's too hard, staff don't have enough time, not everyone will be happy with this. Not everyone is happy with the current decision to reduce the spotlight from daily to every few days but that still happened. Not everyone is happy with entering pets and getting rejected without even an event to tell them their pet has been rejected from the queue but that still happens.

Personally I'm much in 's boat in regards to the spotlight. I've never entered and likely never will. At first my reasoning was because I'm VERY slow with "completing" my pets. I still work on them at my own pace and I always will. I work on them for myself. Now-a-days, even if i wanted to enter, I wouldn't because it's just not worth it. Denials out the ass, waiting weeks to re-enter to only get denied again, rolling around on the forums with people helping trying to figure out what is wrong, thinking you've finally figured it out only to re-enter and have it rejected once again. How is this fun? How is this worth anyone's time?

Pet people on subeta got better things to do than play 20 questions with their seemingly perfect pet. This system doesn't promote fun. It may have in the beginning but it definitely doesn't now. If you really think the pet spotlight is "fun", kindly go through this thread and see just how much "fun" all these pet people have been having for years, just trying to get a win on their favourite pet.

This thread is proof that something needs to change because it made me legitimately SAD reading all the responses in here.

I don't want this topic to get locked because I think there's important discussion in it. However, I still don't know how fair or unfair the distribution of the workload is. It's probably not my place to even be asking in the first place but evaluating even one entry seems like a lot of work, the kind of work that would be better and really more fun to do with more input.

I remember a Site Feedback conversation about artists being spread thin at one point in particular because of the onslaught of site events going on. The situation is frustrating for users but the staff teams who work in areas like tickets, forum moderating, etc, aren't large. (Those are actually bad examples because they're divided up, sorry!) I would really like to hear more of Subeta's side and I hope we can continue talking about this because I think both sides are starting to feel a little defensive in justifying their perspectives.

I've been advocating for a while now, that subeta makes a pet "heart" system (just like the HA hearts), which I feel is far more appealing than the spotlight. There's no drama involved, and people who work at their own pace (story of my life) or have forever changing/evolving/redoing character (my life story book two) can still have their ideas and work admired by a larger group of people.

I'd love to see that happen, more than anything. But I'm the minority as I don't find the spotlight appealing at all (not only the idea of me having to 'alter' my ideas to better suit what the spotlight wants, but also focusing more on art than ideas, more on art that TCs -hiss-, the ring-around-the-rejection game to find what accidental div or br is messing my profile up, having to alter my standard happy simplistic template to be more pretty, and then of course the probably 57 anon tumblr submissions bawing about how my ideas are mean and unhappy and white and I only won because privileged and favoritism)... no thanks.

I still wouldn't enter, even with a rejection reason, for 75% of the before mentioned aspects that I know would happen, but if the queue is this low perhaps redoing this into something that's actually worthwhile to enter could be in order.

Or just give us pet hearts so the recluses who work at their own pace can be happy, too.

Listen, I don't know how it all works on the inside, but as someone who plans to enter the spotlight, this enter board is very saddening.

"Not being able to make everyone happy", like others have said, is loving BS. That's not an excuse. had an AMAZING point in saying that

Not everything you do will make people happy, that's impossible. But you want to make most of the people happy, so good business sense would be to make most of the people happy. Keep in mind, these people you're trying to make happy are the same people who spend real money on your pet site because they want to. (Not to mention CSC/$ is spent on buying profiles, art, overlays and custom overlays, so actually, yeah you are making some money from this.) You should be trying your best to support these people in anyway, shape or form. This doesn't take away from all of the good you guys do, but it's something that needs to be addressed. And the fact that now that the PS only comes out three times a week should have given you more time. So saying you don't have "enough hours in the day", is kinda BS. (I understand people are busy during the holiday season, but even if it is more complicated on the inside, the concept of time is known by everyone. You spend less time on something, you have more time.) The "Heart" system that is suggesting is also a nice idea.

Something else I'd like to see changed at some point in the future is the fact that, a) we can't nominate our own pets and b) we can't ask for nominations. Like you KNOW people are contacting their friends on Tumblr/Skype/Text/Email WHATEVER to ask if they'll nominate their pet. YOU JUST KNOW! Because, otherwise, how would the pet get nominated? You get lucky when someone just HAPPENS to read the profile and decides "yeah, i'll nominate this person!"?? That's dumb. People don't usually click on pets profiles, to my knowledge, and even if they did would they stick around long enough to make sure it was "spotlight worthy"? Not to mention, you can't even ask on Subeta for nominations, so really you just have to post a lot on the forums, HINT around the fact you need a nomination (thus breaking Subeta's rules) and hopefully you get one. (Or however many you need. I'm not sure.)

Honestly, the whole system needs working on. And I also agree with when she said

I am, however, COMPLETELY AGAINST paying 25 CSC for an explanation as to why we've been rejected. If we keep suggesting we use CSC for things, this place is going to become a "pay to play" type of thing and I don't like that. Especially because people may not be able to get/afford CSC. The Pet Spotlight should be fun for everyone and honestly, this is not how it's turning out to be. I expect to see some change at some point in the future.

no wonder subeta has such an absense of 'pet people' when the site is actively doing everything it can to sabotage these people.

i mean, i've stopped entering the pet spotlight because i stopped caring about my pets a long time ago, but that's me being a burnout. my sympathies go out to the poor schmucks who are handed rejection after rejection (silently, i might add, because it would be waaaay too hard to let people know they didn't make the cut) based on vague premises that they'll never figure out because "i totally don't feel like it"

it's one thing to keep getting rejection notices that say "your coding is terrible," because at least you know what's going on there. but as is, the system is based on a "tee hee, guess!" feedback method. is it any wonder people are giving up, or at the very least, getting awfully chafed? but yeah, you're right. you can't make everybody happy, so let's just keep making nobody happy.

Since the PS changes were released, I have been actively reading all the comments, and this thread. It disheartens me to read some of the responses I've seen on both locations. I have won the PS a number of times, multiple pets in different creations phases and some just with nothing there but I'm drawn to the name. When the first set of PS changes were released I rebelled. I was pissed. I didn't like the changes. I didn't like that suddenly the work I had put into my pet wasn't acceptable to someone. I took a step back though and re-evaluated some aspects of my pet. What I wanted my pets to be at that time, wasn't what I had created. It was like I had made some excuses for myself, and expected that to be ok. So I revamped those pets, and the new result was something I loved and was incredibly proud of myself.

There are some things I would love to see changed about the pet system and community. For one, I would be incredibly fond of seeing a notification of acceptance or denial. However, I do not believe in having staff give US feedback. The reason I believe this is because the Spotlight in essence is us, the users, showing off our work, creations, and ideas to other users. Subeta is giving us the opportunity to limelight our pets. It is hard for me to accept the idea that I need to depend on a staff member telling me what is wrong with my pet, rather than ask for assistance from the pet community.

What I would really like to see is an official Subeta sanction council of users, like minimods but preferably without pay or monetary compensation via CS would be acceptable as well, who assist the user base by giving honest feedback. Users who can honestly tell another that using purely back and blood red colours just isn't aesthetically pleasing or that tiny, tiny font doesn't make things legible. I also would like these users to have the ability to protest a rejection or provide a recommendation for Nomination of a pet that may not necessarily be completely within the Rules, and do actual Nominations themselves. I think in some ways having something like this might give users more encouragement to make PS pets because they have access to feedback, and confidence that there is a meaningful system in place to help with success.

I will also say that I think there has been VERY little activity on PSSupport, which is full of people who try and help others with their pets. It is on us, the users, to make these creations, in whatever means we choose (art riddled, simplistic, or graphic intensive, whatever floats our boat), and to get that opportunity to show them off. Why depend solely on staff when we have options to get help from our own community? Ask friends for honest opinions, hit up the forums or random community members!

And if anyone wants some feedback on their pets, I am always open to helping out! :)

The idea of a tribal council made up of elders is awesome and hilarious to me.

I don't know very many people on a personal level here, but just reading shows the "Who's Who's of Subeta" in terms of "knowledgeability" and fairness. (Looking at you and . :))

Here's the catch though: How would the council be compiled in a way that wouldn't turn into a drama-fest or popularity contest? Subeta already has enough of that. It's obvious who the big battlers, CW artists, pet profile coders, etc. are even from a casual perspective. How would this group be put together without obvious favoritism or enough impartiality? It's nice to hear that there are dedicated people in a forum group though!

But isn't that what we kind of have already, with the PSSupport thread on the forums? Where we ask, and sometimes nobody can find anything wrong with the pet at all, yet it still got booted from the queue? As helpful as the PSSupport group is, it's utterly disheartening when nobody can find a reason for the pet being booted.

That's the whole purpose of asking for a tick box reason (literally just "coding" or "story" so we have a rough idea where to look) from the staff who booted the pet, because only those staff members know the "real" reason for the pet being rejected.

Unless this "official Subeta sanction council of users" were told the reason for booting, I'm not sure how that would be any improvement to the existing group.... and if that group were told the real reason, then they might as well tell the pet's owner directly ;)

I haven't read the whole thread but here are my two cents: I think it's a good idea if staff had some kind of checkboxes to give feedback about rejections. I don't think it would increase the workload but it would actually decrease the workload of staff because a lot of pets could be fixed faster and there wouldn't be pets getting rejected five or more times. It's a lot less work to reject a pet once and click a box giving a reason than to reject a pet many times, looking at everything again and again. I think giving a hint about the rejection would be enough from staff side and the rest should be up to the users. If a user doesn't understand the rejection he can always get help from other users, especially if those users know what they have to look for.

I've been noticing several people who post on the PSSupport thread getting no or very little feedback though. That's not going to encourage more people to use that thread.

An officially picked group of users to give feedback sounds complicated. What if someone takes an hiatus or is otherwise indisposed. Does a temp replacement have to be picked?

I think rather those of us who do care about the pet spotlight should step up and try to help those who actually post looking for help.

Maybe we should make a new PSSupport? I mean, I joined the group recently myself and the board has been very inactive. Maybe most of the group users aren't active anymore. While I do like the idea of a council, that is pretty much what we have now with PSSupport. Perhaps it just needs a new group and then we could make a fresh new board to help people with. I don't know about any of you guys, but I'd be on board with making a new support group. And, if we had some newer users along with some oldies in the group, it wouldn't be about who is popular and who isn't, it would just be a group of pet lovers helping out other pet lovers trying to achieve the spotlight.

Other than hoping the users in the PSSupport group suddenly become active again in trying to help other users out, that's really all I can suggest. There's only about four/five active people on the group from what I've seen, not including myself. After all, you don't need to be a long time Subeta user or popular to know what to look for and how to critique.

(I hope you guys don't mind the ping, thought you might wanna see this post.)

I'm not sure making a new group is the answer. (not a fan of remaking existing groups unless there's a really good reason) But it would be nice if more of the group members were active on the topic. At least once in a while. I can't always be bothered posting myself, but I do try to do so every now and then. ^^;

- I actually forgot to mention that I think the council thing should be rotating users. A volunteer position for maybe a month or two. It wouldn't be a strict thing. My suggestion is to help get some confidence that what people suggest fixing, that gets fixed, would eventually lead to a Nomination and win. Right now, yes, it can be a bit of a "hm...why??" and I would like to see less of that, but not with a system that staff tells us, but we the users tell one another.

I also think that as much as we step it up as caring about the PS, people still need to make the effort to seek help. For me, seeing all the "I fixed so many things and it kept getting rejected" just makes me wonder how much outside assistance was used. Fresh pair of eyes.

- I don't see a point of a new PSSupport. My idea of the council was Subeta sanctioned. Essentially they have Subeta's blessing that when they help people, and give good, meaningful critiques that they eventually can yield a Spotlight win for a pet. They would be able to protest rejections, or make recommendations that a pet has satisfied all the requirements and should be Nominated.

Hmm, while that certainly is better (not giving any set of users too much power) I'm not sure giving non-staff a role like that in the spotlight is a good thing. For example me having made a lot of pet profiles, should I be allowed to weigh in on those pets? Or would those have to wait a month for a new user to be assigned? and are staff and have to be objective, but I'm not sure I would expect the rest of us to be, if we were given that power. ^^;

Of course it's up to those people to actively seek help. If they want it. I know how hard it can be to spot your own mistakes, so a second opinion is always a good thing.

Ah, alright. I just figured it would be worth mentioning. I don't have any other ideas as far as getting the group more active, but I do know that if the Spotlight were fixed more users would try to go for the award. Then with a constant flow of questions, maybe we could see more people sprouting from the group and becoming more active. As far as your second post, I'd say that maybe you and another use could judge how it looks? You are your own worst critic, after all, but since it's your work it's also not in your best interest to point out mistakes.

I do have a question, though, how would the users be able to tell what was wrong with a pet if the staff didn't give some sort of hint as to why? Otherwise a system that "we the users tell one another" seems like the thing we have now with PSSupport.

The only thing I can think of that speaks in favor of a new group, is that it can be quite intimidating pinging almost 200 people to come look at your pet. But in time a new group would grow as well, especially if it were active, and we might be right back where we started.

That's exactly it. I probably wouldn't want to point out mistakes in my own work. Or if the pet belonged to a close friend. Or both in one (that also happens). Staying objective then could be a problem.

Yeah I thought about that too. It's hard not to be biased toward your friend or your work.

But if we were able to get a council, maybe people put in applications for positions? Like maybe applications would help sort out who would be good at having an unbiased opinion and who wouldn't be, among other things.

Since there's not enough time for them to sort out rejection reasons and such, I doubt they'd want to take the time to look through applications on a monthly basis.

I wanted to add:

1. I don't see the point of a council. That's what pssupport is: a group of people attempting to find a problem that they know that exists while they don't know the nature of the problem.

2. Remaking the pssuport isn't going to make things more active. There is a reason why people are inactive in pssuport and it's probably not related to how new the ping group or the board are. There is a deeper underlying problem, and restarting a ping group doesn't change the fundamental problem.

   I think an important reason why there are so little replies are: sometimes you simply don't see a problem. I always check the pssuport pings and half of the time I don't see a single problem with the pet. So I don't feel like adding up to the people who already posted that there is nothing wrong to see.