A few questions / ideas below, but overall this seems like a really smart new way to approach quests. I can see multiple perks to this system and in my mind it should entice folks to do their daily quests more often? The idea of NPC specific "quest points" also helps people pick and choose which quest they want to do if they have limited time, based on the prizes they are most wanting. The unlockable prizes is a fun idea, and the boosters that come with each new level are great! I'm someone who generally does all her quests daily. I go through small periods where I skip some or all of them, but otherwise it's pretty consistent. I'm super fast at it because I use my keyboard shortcuts, so it takes me maybe 5m to do 15 quests. Yet even for me, sometimes it feels too monotonous. I don't really want to see the quest amount drop quite so dramatically (from 10 to 3 feels like a big leap) but I also am very interested in the addition of new NPCs, the fleshing out of NPCs (yay LORE and INTERACTION), and the way that quests could tie even further into areas of the site. The opportunity here for a lot of positive things is significant, and I'm excited for it. I think it's also helpful for those who are anxious to remember that things can always be tweaked or even changed back!

Would the seasonal items that return annually all be migrated, or only the items from the current season? It would be nice to have another chance at some of those before they skyrocket in price from being no longer available! :)

Item Pull Option Order This is the order I typically pick c: Though sometimes if the item is selling in user shops for significantly more than in the NPC shop I'll buy from the NPC shop instead of turning in the one I have.

Your Inventory Your Shop NPC Shop User Shop Your Vault

Quest Number Got to pg3 and saw the part where you discussed increased # of NPCs, which I love! Again - more connection with Subeta and its residents is, to me, amazing. Let's look at Pokemon, part of the reason it has continued to be such a beloved game is because of how deeply attached to the world people feel. Subeta can totally improve in that area and this is one way to make strides!

Trying to read through all the posts here and I'm still confused though, is it a total of X quests per day and you have to choose which NPCs you go to that day, or X number per NPC per day? Hard vote for the second lol. I think if we're moving from a single currency that can be used for anyone's prizes to NPC specific currency (reputation) making it random who you can quest from each day is incredibly frustrating. Let's say I'm really excited about so-and-so's prizes, but then I have to quest how many days to get enough quests from them to get those because I am not able to quest with them daily? A compromise (that I still am not a fan of) is at least letting people choose which NPCs they want to spend their X # of quests on. But to me, the fun of questing is that I need to go out and get something for this character. I'm all for an easier (single click to get prize) option if it means making others more engaged, and I'm 100% down with less quests per NPC so that we can have more NPCs, but please let me go visit and do quests for all my friends each day lol. If you want it to be variable, maybe have a core group of NPCs that we do daily (maybe like 10) and then we can choose from the others for that day?

Wiz Tokens and QPs I am in the same camp of - usually if I'm "hoarding" it's for a specific reason (ex: there are seasonal items I really want, so I'm saving to make sure I can get them all or so I can prioritize towards the end of the season). If I'm not saving for something, I'm selling.

Morty Cards How will this impact them, if at all? They are such a huge perk to questing especially for F2P users.

Other but Important Also, please don't shoot me but can we get an updated on the forum organization tools and feedback board before the resources go too far into other things? hides

I really like this idea! Sure, vary the overall questgiver pool, but have 3 questgivers that are permanent in that pool: Wizard, Quentin, Saggi. The rest? Shake it up. 30-50 quests total, but 5 quests per questgiver seems fine to me. Maybe you can unlock more questgivers as you gain rep with the main 3? Word gets around that you're really good at doing errands. Maybe have a bonus questing weekend twice a month where we're able to do more quests for more questgivers, earn more rep, get better item rewards, idk. Something fun to give you a nudge into trying to do as many of your quests as you can.

For Blue Building quests specifically... I'd say wait to tweak them since those quests are tied into another unlockable feature - the Blue Building itself. That place could definitely use a bit of polish, bit I feel it's something that should be done separately from the quest revamp. Though the BB kind of does have its own version of quest rep already (BB rank).

For Shinwa... I don't really mind being sent on a fetch-quest for pieces of her bracelet? But I also wouldn't mind the bracelet being taken out of the equation completely because... Shinwa, gurl, how careless are you to be losing your precious jewelry that often. She could have you check out 5 places/questgivers around the site without actually doing their quests? That's my main gripe with Shinwa's current system - if you forget and do a full set of even one of your questgivers, you can be completely locked out of finishing her quest. Or she could have you do 5 random activities on the site. Like a lite, more enjoyable version of Major Drills (I hate his quests and never do them, but that's a whole other ball of yarn).

I'm imagining Shinwa like that meme of the dog who keeps playing fetch because they think the person wants to play. She wakes up each day, rolls her eyes at her silly little humans, snaps her bracelet into pieces and wanders around handing it to her NPC pals. It's like 4am and she's got a messy bun, sweats, and her coffee in hand as she heavily sighs and hands the Wizard his piece for the 10000th time.

I think it's fun to have her as something "different" from the other NPCs. It's almost like she's a step between the Oracle (random) and the normal quest givers. It can be frustrating when you get low-value items too many days in a row, but the "chance" aspect is also fun!

I am also in the camp of, let's give this a chance. So many people seem SO angry about any changes. We could end up with something much better and more fun, and the possibility of drawing in new users is a very nice thought.

I am currently copying the name of the item requested for the quests and coming back here to snag it. I don't want to use the last of an item in my vault, and I can't see how many I have there. And it doesn't seem to be honoring the discount card in my inventory. Also, I like to see the shop search and what the options are there for purchasing. But if we can get some little things sorted, I think I'm going to love the way the new quests function.

I'm also all in for the reputation stuff, any way it threshes out. It seems like it creates more engagement with the NPC's, which I enjoy. And I like that it's up to me to gain reputation, rather than things operating randomly.

I just want to say thank you for the time you have invested trying to keep this place interesting and fun. You probably have better things to do with your time, considering all the grief you get. I want you to know a lot of us very much appreciate it.

Some more layout feedback:
On quest-giver's pages, the dropdown menus at the top get hidden behind the quest giver's dialog box rather than hovering in front.

Also, the Back button on the Wizard currently tries to take you to the Sacred Lands, rather than going back to the list of quest givers like Rumi and Maybel do.

One thing that we have now that I feel like is missing is that quests seem kind of isolated. There is the back button (which doesn't work for Wizard but works with the other two) but there is some space under the quest page which I think can can be filled with other available quests. I would like something similar to the bar like we have at the top of our current quests.

I'm also agreeing with the others that we should have core quest givers who are always available and have the others be random. I do actually like to have Wizard tokens, Wizard is one of the quests that I do first so that if I run out of steam and don't finish them, at least I did Wizard.

sorry to ping you! Did you read my post about losing items in the quests? Ooops, sorry, just fiinished reading the above post :-( Spell things are like 300 to 500 pieces (esp. the Crypt Dust is definitely an event and battle loot thing), the ones for Maybel were around 50, recalling some that I looked up, however I did not use the "pick from vault" option at all! Except for 1 time, when I forgot to reload the page and Maybel's were set in the original, others were changed to take from inventory, the single wizard quest I did was buy from NPC shop.

I’m on my last Rumí quest and keep getting this error when I try to complete it-

Error buying item: No query results for model [AppModelsUserShopItem].

Edit: I just got it to go through by buying the items individually through the shop search.

I've noticed that issue on the new forums as well when looking at an individual topic. The dropdowns end up hidden behind the first post of the topic.

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I know aesthetics are the last thing to get polished, but I think visuals play a pretty big role in easing folks into something like this. If it helps any, I've done a little rearranging & adjusting of the ongoing quest & reward pages. Fair warning: it's intended as food for thought, I have not fully unified it color-wise so that's going to stick out.

Link to the ongoing quest page mockup. Link to the quest rewards page mockup.

The tweaked pages look more compact without being cluttered, unnecessary scrolling is avoided. I've added a shop search button because clicking on the item to get to a quasi-shop search/subetapedia item info page feels a bit unintuitive. Requested item images are fullsized instead of being shrunk down. I've also kept the "quick quest completion" features Keith added b/c those would be a stellar GA perk imo. The "Back" button now clearly says where it will/should take you. Questgiver's portrait is smaller, but uniform on the reward & quest page, with the rep bar being shown both in the reward & quest page.

Just gonna say i really appreciate the dale gribble-esque dialogue on the sticker quests. x) I can tell you had fun writing it. LOL :’D tbh i’m kinda warming up to these new quests. This might not be as bad as it seems. As long as i don’t have LESS to do here each day, and have the option to do as many or as little of the quests as i please (and that there is an abundant array of npcs to choose from) i don’t mind having only 5 quests per npc.

My main concern is that i want MORE things that i can do here each day, or at least have the option to. Not less. Unless i choose not to do everything. I spend a lot of time here, and don’t want to feel like there’s nothing left to do after 5 mins of being here. I already struggle sometimes with finding things to do in non-event periods. ;-;

I'm feeling pretty optimistic about these changes so far. :)

One idea I had rolling around last night. Instead of just getting items for shopkeeper from there own shop, maybe a few Drills style quests can be implemented too.

So maybe early on with less rep, Maybel will ask for some minions from all the shops. Then maybe she can be the one to ask you to feed the dragon of autumn, free some minions and maybe even let goat of your worries with Oatmeal. Those would feel very fitting with her character and help make some quests more engaging with other areas of the site too.

Hm. Are you suppose to be able to buy stickers from the Wizard? It takes my SP, but I get no stickers. Oh well.

Anyway, I kinda like this idea. Adding reputation adds a little RPG element to the site. Eventually, you can say your good/tolerable friends with Maleria, and can prove it! Wear a little badge or frame to prove your loyalty.

I've been hiatus for about 4 years from the site. I'm trying to play catch-up with a lot of stuff. But, currently, my daily consist of doing all my quest, sorting through what I get. I feed some things to the pets, read some books, and anything "valuable" gets added to the gallery for keeping or to the shops to sell. Rest gets fragged (roughly 150-200 per day). There's a lot of stuff in that shop I would like. I barely got that Blackmoon plushie (15K) before they sold out.

A smidge of an idea, though. It looks like the test quest might be messing with folks stuff. Is there a way to just make some dummy accounts or clone accounts for testers to test with? Then you can have them deleted afterwards without have to rollback or refund stuff.

They said, that quest shop puchases don't work.

Things I'm not entirely opposed to:

• The idea of reputation in general. I tried it and it seems alright so far as like a lore thing

• The ease of options and increased speed of quests. Particularly, I like how you can see if you have an item in your account, and am glad to know shops will be added to that list.

• Shinwa changing to be like normal quests

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Things I disagree with:

• Having less quests overall. The quests I just did took me less than a minute. If the concern is "people don't do quests because they take too long to do" I think this goes WAY too much in the other direction. There's 0 page loads, you just have to have enough sP and boom the quest is finished the same page you start it on. If they go by this fast, I don't see what's wrong with keeping the same amount.

• This isn't the first time I've seen this sentiment from staff, so it appears to be some kind of misunderstanding, but... the idea that banked currencies are being stored in excess with no plans to use them. Yes, I want as much wizard tokens as I can possibly get each day, to have enough on hand when things come up in the token shop that literally costs thousands themselves. Yes, I do have hundreds of quest points right now... because I haven't built up enough to get everything I want yet. And yes, I do have thousands of Blue Building points... because I'm trying to save up to get all those items that are worth 5,000+ points each. These are all things that aren't just sitting around for no reason, it feels like staff thinks that we should immediately spend points as we get them but... no one does that. I like to calculate how much of something I'll need, then sit on it until I get that much, then buy everything I need at once. Please don't judge stored currency as "something we don't need more of because we're not constantly spending it". I'm saving up.

  Quote

  what i do want is for getting those tokens to feel rewarding, not just something rote you “have” to collect just in case the token shop restocks or some random chance comes along.
  I don't know how else this would be remedied, unless the price of certain items get decreased by the thousands, or the token shop disappears completely or is reworked to be the wizard's reputation shop thingy. Because... there's always going to be this idea of "I need to have tokens so I can be ready for the next token shop restock." Also tokens make for good stocking stuffer type gifts at Lumi.

• If I'm reading this right, the idea is to have potentially hundreds of quest givers, but limit/randomize who we get to do each day... but while somehow every quest giver has their own "shop" that you have to work towards leveling up in? This sounds significantly worse than the current Quest Shop setup. I would absolutely loathe a setup like that :( Right now I can do everyone's quests, but say if I don't want anything from wizard's shop, I'm not locked into using the points I got from him solely for his shop. I can spend what I want where I want WHEN I want. And enjoy that.

• Taking away the idea of "junk items" used for fragging. What exactly is wrong with taking all the junk items and fragging them, since they're being removed from the economy just the same? And what will people use to get humming crystals then? Again, things in the crystal shop cost hundreds-thousands of crystals. I need what I can get. And, if I could get on a soapbox for a second... This is just me, but I've always hated the way the Recycle Beast works, only asking for certain items a day. I would love nothing more than for it to work like the fragmentizer, because I would definitely send half or more of my junk to the Recycle Beast, for those Recycle Points I severely lack. I didn't really enjoy the recycling event we had this morostide because it again asked for very specific items that I either don't have or I'm already using (like the ton of food which WAS dedicated to Fantine...), instead of letting me toss in whatever I want to get rid of/don't need. ok /rant over

So anyway to summarize new quests + reputation seems cool but I have ...some concerns.

Ah, alrighty. I missed that. Thank you! I don't know how Keith keeps up with everyone, I couldn't even track that bit of info down ^^;

Hello, yes.

Wesley should be in the NPC quest rotation, with a small % chance to trigger a shirtless version of him upon quest completion with the turn-in dialogue. Rewards would be unnecessary, as we would have already received what we came for. We should also be able to bromance him like in Stardew Valley - that's the only type of reputation we rly care about. But, that's for another forum post on another day (I have tons of ideas re: site features integrated with new questlines/NPCs). This is what the playerbase wants. (My name is playerbase.) He is the only NPC we care about.

Streamlining the quests with drip-fed rewards are ok, but randomized quests/events with rare reward pools are my favorite part about doing them. For example, I would sometimes complete library quests for a chance at the amulets in the reward pool, but never just for the sP, the quest points, or proposed reputation gain (for future shop rewards). [*Edited to add: It's the equivalent of pulling a holographic Pokémon card when you get a Morty on a quest reward. It feels similar to the shock of pulling an Amulet of Neutrality out of a Hustler box, being the first one to find a gene-tech combo, the Minion Trap capturing the lizard/item, pulling a battle weapon from a claw machine. That makes me want to do more of them, not necessarily for the sP income generated. This also makes lore as a reward really exciting.]

I feel like catering to FOMO players is the biggest detriment to this site (and probably to you financially). It's part of the reason everyone is so resistant to any change. You don't even weaponize their FOMO against them like other companies would - you negotiate with their demands by adjusting deadlines, goalposts, and site code. The release of those random-chance cookies tied to an achievement with a deadline (with this community) was the biggest example of foot-in-mouth I've witnessed in a long time - all over a book reward which I tossed in the donation center. OmegaLUL.

Outside of beanbags, plushies, minions, and stickers - not every player should be able to obtain every item or achievement. (Based?) Exclusivity and true rare-chance rewards are almost non-existent on Subeta (outside of limited-batch CWs, battling community items, or quest plot rewards from a decade ago). This is my biggest reason for not caring about doing these quests themselves or the rewards they give. Everything will eventually be obtainable, for pocket change, whether I do any of that or not - because the rewards aren't exclusive or limited and eventually people just spenddown all their quest-points and oversaturate the market with all the quest shop items anyway. This only benefits my carpel tunnel. Players that have been here for decades already have what the NPCs are giving (we have Gringotts at home). We should either go all-in and rip off this band-aid going forward on the new Kumos site - or have all rewards available to everyone with no time-gates or reputation requirements in relation to quest-givers. Those that replied that they enjoy spending an hour + on these quests (with admittedly terrible rewards) for fun(?) are in my prayers. Gurl, why?

Can you clarify if Morty card rates will be adjusted with the reduced number of quests available so that their output % remains relatively the same? This is my only concern regarding any proposed questing changes. All other quest rewards are trivial, imo, with the shops' current systems. I already supplement friends on here in F2P positions, d/t various reasons out of their control.

I appreciate you and your staff's devotion to keeping this site running. We are all getting older, and our free time is limited. Whatever makes things easier to manage while keeping the dream alive is appreciated. I know you all could probably be spending this time and energy on other projects that yield a higher profit margin (and serotonin production). There are a lot of grandfathered-in ideas and systems in place that will anger a few if altered, but that may be necessary for Subeta's survival after two decades. Some things worked great initially, and suck now - but not everyone will admit this. I have nothing but love for this site, but I am also am realistic - as everyone should be. The replies here with the "iM LeAbIng & nEbur cOmiNg bAcK!" energy are hilarious. Without any proposed changes, including a new website that can handle the code load (lol), and a constant influx of new users - that's exactly what's happening here already. If there was ever an Olympic medal for walking on eggshells in your own home - you'd receive the gold uncontested lol. We need new players with new ideas and new expectations, and I hope that's what the Kumos site achieves above anything.

Hm, this sounds like a lot to take in, and I don't take I have any useful feedback right now.

My biggest fear with Kumos in general is that it is a big change for the sake of a big change. A big structural change just to say that the site is still alive and kicking, even if it means removing core mechanics/layouts and throwing users on a dark room with 17 angry cats in it. It scares me.

Doing quests is a vital part of my daily routine at this point. My OCD just loves knowing that at the end of the day I can sit down, watch some garbage on Youtube and spend a good hour doing quests. I guess I'm afraid of that changing and any feedback I might have will surely be tainted by it.

Anyways, I'm skeptical for this (specially about the quest points) but it's undeniable that the quality of life is much improved, I really liked doing these new quests and they work flawlessly so far. I just hope we don't get a cut from like 15 quests each NPC to 3 even if the reward is the same or even more.

Sorry for posting so much here, I just have a lot of thoughts about this. I like Frost's mock-ups a lot! I know visuals aren't the priority but the unnecessary scrolling bothers me a lot.

Change is scary (I personally barely use the Kumos site because it's so different) but the more I've been thinking about this, the more optimistic I feel. Quests are Subeta's lifeblood but they've also barely changed in so very long and they're not engaging or interesting at all, they're just a grind. This new system keeps the core of questing the same while streamlining the process and making it feel more alive and giving us reason to participate outside of just daily profits that some of us might not be concerned about. (And yes, I am talking about myself. I love to have 1 billion sP and then never do anything with it because what if Millionaire Center pet slots happen again one day? But having so much sP makes me not feel like going through the tediousness of questing every day, so I usually only do quests a few times a week, if at all.)

I personally like to hoard things because I... well, simply because I like to see big numbers (this is also the main reason I have multiple tier 11+ pets while not really knowing what I'm doing in battle...), but I also do understand the discussion of not wanting people to have to hold onto things and hope. I certainly like the idea of being able to more work toward getting big desirable items, rather than hoping they randomly restock!

All of the seasonal Quest Shop items are still tied to one of the Quest Shop NPCs, even if they're in a different shop now, so I imagine they would just get moved to their respective NPC's shop. I might be remembering wrong but I think the seasonal shop came after seasonal items were released. It's easy to think immediately of the worst case scenario, but I don't feel like there are a lot of events that feel like we have to be on here constantly to get things (outside of maybe the more competitive ones)? Usually there is some leeway, I think, for people who can't dedicate a ton of time daily. Part of the intention of streamlining quests so much is to make it so it's easier and more appealing for people to actually do their quests daily, since a lot of users don't bother with them currently. I have a hard time imagining that the site would actually make it so a shiny new seasonal reward was only obtainable if we religiously did every quest for that NPC every single day... Generally there is a tendency on Subeta to make as many things possible for everyone to collect as feasible.

I really hate change a lot of the time and I understand so many of peoples' concerns, but I've been having a lot of big Subeta feelings for the past week and I'm remembering, like, I'm pretty sure I've seen mention of Keith paying out of pocket to help keep the site running in the past. I hope everyone is trying to remember that this site really is something we all care a lot about, not just us dedicated users that have been here forever. After all this discussion and seeing the stats on how many users don't actually bother with any quests a day (like me half the time!), it really feels like a way to try to breathe more life into the site and try to revitalize activity, and after so long with so many of us feeling like the site is slowly stagnating and perhaps dying... I feel like I should mention that as a very normal person, I am currently sitting here tearing up over how much I love this website.

For users, it's a reworking of a classic feature that streamlines the process to be less tedious, adds a bit more lore and immersion, and gives us goals to work toward. I imagine that staff will have fun writing more dialogue and developing the NPCs that have been around for forever but not used much, as well as making new items for their shops, etc. There's also so much potential for little things with the reputation system in general, I think, things like small interactive side quests that could help make things feel a bit less quiet overall while a full plot is out of the question at the moment and events are so... I mean, events are fun and unless I'm sick I always try to participate! But they're also generally the same thing every year, just with shiny new items. This is exciting stuff, I think, even if it's also scary and I'm sure that there will be more of the inevitable hiccups along the way.

It's pretty clear there are some common big concerns here for the majority of us - total number of quests, RNG, quest-givers, etc. - and I hope that can be sorted out before too long to ease fears. No one wants the people who are already dedicated questers to feel like they're getting punished, but the arguments for change make a lot of sense. Quests have been the same for such a very long time and Subeta is a 20-year-old website of a genre that has been dying out.