Mostly I don’t agree that staff would go with the same rules as custom overlays, because I think they would draw a line at allowing users to release unofficial site-wide pet colors. I’m not even getting into ownership. The amount of freedom you have with a custom overlay is amazing. It’s basically anything goes as long as it’s definitely not a human and isn’t skirting too close to copyright. Your guess is as good as mine as to just">https://subeta.net/petinfo.php?petid=5994147]just how far you can get from the original">https://subeta.net/petinfo.php?petid=5942315]original species and still have it get">https://subeta.net/petinfo.php?petid=981666]get accepted. It’s way above and beyond a blue reborn pet or having a sweetheart overlay on a dawn pet because the official version doesn’t exist yet. There might be no issue with you having one unique sweetydead pet as a case by case basis, but turning that into a site-wide skin makes it a different beast and implies official endorsement. It also means staff has to let go of a lot creative control and now wrangle a bajillion new colors and species.

- I definitely get where you're coming from, the current system does give a fantastic amount of freedom and how that might be tied to them being more 'one offs'. That said, I don't entirely agree that people being able to buy user art from user run shops automatically implies official endorsement, and/or that it means staff are now fully responsible for, expected to curate, or follow up with official with content any more than they already do via. the current custom overlay system (bar maybe upping the minimum quality standard). Yes, a (potentially) large number of people having the same overlay may lead some people to assume it's more 'official', but it'd still have the 'custom' tag, which would let most people understand that it's not standard site art.

There's also the fact that the staff is small and likely to stay that way, 'running a skeleton team' has been mentioned multiple times, it could benefit the site to have more widely/easily accessible user generated pet art. Personally I don't think it's unreasonable to look at this in the same way as CWs, with the user-base effectively boosting the amount of available content and letting staff focus more on things only staff can do. I know it's not the most university popular solution, but the site is pretty generous with free ways to get CSC, so it doesn't seem like so terrible an option under the circumstances.

Obviously it'd all come down to staff opinion on the matter, but that's my take on it at least.

turning pets into CWs doesn't do any favors for the player base in a game where pets and pet colors are readily and cheaply available. Subeta's long running issues with releasing new species/color combos isn't an excuse to make pets into a sea of premium purchases, and I do not think making pets into CWs to 'crowdsource' art is an appropriate solution. Especially when you are suggesting that the whole thing can be handed off to the player base by doing this. If these are available through an in-game system, they absolutely do carry the same endorsement that CWs do. More so if they become the only source of new pet art.

Essentially you're using dissatisfaction with a revamp as a camel's nose to.. get whatever it is you're after here. Adoptables? Closed species? Subeta has no pet or color exclusivity. I don't think the staff would want to give up that amount of creative control, let alone wash their hands of pet art entirely.

I think pet custom overlay shops, like CW shops, would be extremely cool. Honestly, I think it would help bring pets into a more active part of the site. I also think Subeta has very user-friendly premium content, and this is coming from someone who writes about premium content in mobile games for a living. There's a lot of trash out there that exists purely to extort users, and Subeta isn't one of those companies- isn't that why they're such a tiny shoestring team anyway? If this is something that could help Subeta financially, breathe some new freshness into the pet aspect of the site, get users engaged, I say it's definitely worth considering. Staff could probably come up with a good plan to integrate this, even if it takes some of the usual trial and error, and I could see it being very popular. And since pet overlays already cost premium currency, we are already a step in that direction.

I don't know if in the end this means pet overlays still need to be unique or not? I'd be fine with it either way.

- I'm feeling I may be doing a bad job of explaining myself, as that's the complete opposite of what I'd want. I'm all for making things more accessible and less exclusive, which is why I said suggested it would be similar to the 'direct to shop' CWs system, as I was under the impression that makes them unlimited and permanently available. (someone please correct me if I'm wrong)

Not everyone has the ideas, confidence or cash to commission fully custom art for their pet but may still want to customise their pet in some way, being able to buy pre-made art would give those people options. On the artist's side (at least from my perspective) it's got potential appeal too, for example - due to iffy health I can't keep up with commissions, but if I could just add art to a shop people could buy it whenever, regardless of whether I'm up to communicating at the time.

The idea of letting users provide custom art for unofficial colours, which would never get staff drawn art anyway, again just gives people more options. Yes a single user could commission their own 'sweetydead' or 'spectre' overlay for their graveyard/sweetheart/nightmare Bovyne, but if there was a version for sale in a user's custom overlay shop (at a modest price, say 500csc + an adjustable, but limited, artist profit) it'd be much more accessible and affordable to most users.

Regarding filling in of missing colours, long overdue revamps etc. - I 100% agree that the idea situation would be regularly released, free, official content; I'd never want staff to stop releasing pets and/or colours but the reality is that the staff team is very small, with a high workload, and it could be argued that their time may sometimes be better focused on other things ([userid=1] mentioned it when talking about the new CW system here and here). Of course pet art isn't the same thing as wearables, but if users could help be a stopgap and/or bolster content (or simply provide alternate styles of art), I personally think it may be an option which would hopefully be implemented without being detrimental to the site.

Apologies if this comes across as being argumentative in any way, that's not at all the intention and purely a result of my substandard communication skills.

- I'd assume overlays sold through custom overlay shops would need to be non-unique, so multiple people could purchase them, especially as they'd presumably be non-transferable (they'd just be added to your available custom pet images). As I mentioned in the reply to [userid=586524] above, I'd imagine it to work in a similar way to 'direct to shop' CWs, where they'd be unlimited and always available for purchase once added to a shop.

I'd also agree that Subeta is particularly user friendly with it's premium currencies/content, I personally never by in game currencies etc. and the fact you can pretty easily earn CSC here just by playing the game is great.

Sorry for taking so long getting back to you.

I don’t think making pets into CWs makes them inclusive- you propose a base price of 500csc which is about 38,000,000sP. That’s at the extreme high end of what potions cost, barring Angelic Potions. It only goes up from there. I also don’t see the current custom pets as being exclusive except in the sense that the art is exclusive to a single pet. It’s pricey, but it’s a thing you’re getting made just for your own use. But my view is definitely shaped by Subeta’s current rules and market, and being able to poop out my own drawings with enough coffee and podcasts. There’s also the fact that they’re not replacing official pet releases.

You do have a point about the potential for ‘window shopping’ overlays by people who are just casually looking for pretty art to decorate their pets but don’t want to deal with the process of commissioning something. Because of the custom pet rules we don’t have a good idea of how attractive a thing that would be. Sometimes Foxtrot sells base recolors and premades, and they seem to do alright.

You’re not argumentative. On the contrary; you’re very reasonable. You’re just not going to convince me that making pets into CWs is a good idea though. It’s giving pets all the problems of human avatars. I don’t think creating a premium skin market for pets does players any favors, because I think it will do for pets what it’s done for wearables. From my perspective, base price 500csc isn’t modest, let alone for something that you suggest can, and maybe should, replace the free pet colors. Regardless of how we might feel about revamps when they come, I don’t think that’s something that should be left in the hands of player either.

There’s still the quagmire of ownership too =/

I mean, I’d benefit from this. All my ‘wealth’ on Subeta comes from commissions. People prettying their pets has paid for my armory and bought me tens of thousands of stat boosters. CWing pets just strikes me as that bad of an idea.

no support.

I'm honestly not into the idea of turning pet art and overlays into a cw type thing.

I get that the cw market works for those sellers who are in it but it's extremely overwhelming for new people. And there are specific set up shops with a million steps to take. and that kind of shop is tailored specifically for csc, not sure how that would cross over since art is usd/csc/sp. it sounds like a huge hassle and will make things much more complicated for artists for little reason. As an artist I do not want to have a shop like a cw seller, please no lol.

I mean the point of art shops is that the art is unique to every pet. you are suggesting a way for users to make all their pets look like one anothers but an older version. i mean, if subeta wants to do something to implement that on their end, thats fine i guess. (A toggle button for old art i'm sure it's been suggested and tossed out.) but users could also easily use a premade adoptable that already exists. I don't feel like old pet art should be forced to be made more valuable. (also like really with the vintage thing on the pets profile.. who else was around for neopets and their dumb old pets vs new pets thing back in the 90s lmao! can we not ahaha legacy stuff is bad enuf xD ) I don't see the point in making subeta write a whole new thing for art shops to sell mass quantities of same art shrugs and really how does that prevent one or two people taking advantage of this, idk. that's just my feels on it.