How long have we been mentioning the necro rule with no change? There was a topic started on 1/1 of this year and the rule is still (apparently) that.

I know these things take time and consideration to plan and implement...but it's not as if there's 3000 people a day anymore using these forums.

I'm sure the userbase wouldn't be adverse to "Hey, we'll put the necro limit at 6 months for now, and it might change as we keep an eye on it."

We've been mentioning the necro rule for multiple years, to be honest. This isn't the first and probably won't be the last time this topic arises.

Despite the fact I'd love to see the necro rule looked at, tweaked or better yet, done away with, we can suggest and ask and discuss until our fingers are falling off and the site still wouldn't be obligated to change anything or even let us know whether it's being considered.

I'd love to hear something about it, especially "sure, we've decided you all are right and we're doing away with it" would be fantastic. But I'm thinking that hoping for a specific date of implementation, or even expecting that a decision has been made yet, might be an exercise in frustration.

I'm thinking the best we can do is keep talking about it. The more visibility it has as a topic, the more likely it will be discussed/considered. We've been talking about it, yes, but in the back pages of other threads and it's good to not only re-center the issue but to continue it. This is the first thread in a while that centers on the necro rule specifically.

Edit to add a couple of on-topic opinions:

• I agree that sub-forums should get another examination. There are quite a few and with the forums so dead, consolidating some might help a bit.

• Clearing up the rules at the top of each forum/subforum would be excellent.

• Autolocking or deleting threads after they're "dead" would also be very helpful, and would help avoid accidental necro'ing.

• I personally don't have a problem with the English only rule. I recognize that probably puts me at a minority, and I know it can be difficult for non-English speakers, but if the site goes multilingual I'm thinking it may result in, essentially, a bunch of language-related subforums. But it may increase actual post number, so I don't know the answer to this one.

The English-only rule is bothersome to me too. I understand why it is in place and I can't really argue with the reasoning that staff can't moderate what they can't read so I've never really had any hope of seeing it changed. But it still frustrates me. All my favorite bands are German and I have several pets with German and Russian names, and the rule makes it hard to talk about any of them or do what I want with their pet pages. I was never even really sure if I could post in the "What are you listening to now" threads because whatever I'm listening to probably doesn't have an English title. I'm a big fan of languages and it would make me really happy to see threads/subforums in other languages; I've always felt bad for our international users who sometimes have to struggle with English to participate in anything here. Even Neopets managed to support entire translations of their site into multiple languages...if they could still moderate their super-restrictive forums, it seems like Subeta should be able to make it work.

It's not like changing or doing away with the rule would require major programming. All they'd have to do is notify the mods and make a general announcement.

It would take mods a lot of time to check that posts follow site rules by using Google translate. The results can be a bit odd at times, too, because it often translates idioms literally.

Another problem is it often doesn't recognise ethnic-minority languages. I tried translating song lyrics from Kashubian to English and got 'Polish Detected' The translation result included a lot of Kashubian words with English bits such as - I saw manure. It's their chops, it's the ox, It's eating it and it's half."

Not very helpful if a Kashubian speaker joined the site.

Song titles aren't too bad because popular song titles often have English translations on YouTube or are available on song lyrics sites. For example, I'd just post I'm listening to Names of the Allfather by Heilung in the What Are You Listening To? thread even though the actual title is in Old Norse.

I feel the language thing. I totally understand if to users are having a conversation in Spanish or something, and mods might not be able to make sure they are actually following the rules. A translator can only go so far, since languages can be very nuanced.

But surely a word or two, or a simple phrase, should theoretically be fine? I had to take French from Grade 4 to Grade 9 - sometimes I have to stop myself from throwing in a French word or two, or a phrase that a lot of people know without speaking French. Even if you only know the basics of another language, sometimes you just want to sprinkle it in. I can't hold a conversation in French, but I know some words and I like to use them sometimes.

I also minored in Greek and Roman Studies in university, and I have five pets that had something to do with that - Leonnatus, Craterus, Perdiccas, Polyphemos, and Bacchae. I only really plan on doing stories for the last two (since they're from mythology), but I would love to sprinkle a little bit of Greek in there too - just words since that's all I know. There's one Greek word that is kind of important for Bacchae, but I dunno if I use it or call attention to it.

I know I can translate titles but I find that annoying; I don't think it should be necessary. That's just one example of how I think the rule is too restrictive.

I honestly think the most helpful and simple change to truly encourage more forum use would be updating the necro rule. The forums are plain and simply slow. 3 months is not a lot of time, at all.

I mean, what, if I make a topic about something and three months go by, they think I couldn't possibly be still thinking about the topic? If I make a topic about an ongoing tv show and it goes unnoticed and 3 months go by and then someone who just got into the show decides they want to talk to me about it, why should that be against the rules? It's not off topic and it seems like spam to start a second topic when the old topic is only a few lines down due to how slow the forums are.

I understand that it's unreasonable and almost outrageous for someone to suddenly dig up a 5 year old thread, but 3 months is not a long time. They really should reconsider that particular rule and I don't care if it gets brought up too much. It gets brought up for a reason.

I understand. In an earlier post I said

Yep! That's a good question. I used to have the YouTube widget in my profile and wasn't really sure if I could embed a non-English song even if it has subtitles. I think that widget broke for me anyway so it became a non-issue but still. It has been a problem when I wanted to post a snippet of lyrics or poetry on my pet pages too...translations don't carry the same nuances or retain the rhyming scheme. It just seems really harsh...I honestly can't even think of another website right now that only allows English. As I said, I understand the reasoning behind it, but lots of other sites manage to make it work. It doesn't seem like it would be impossible to find moderators for at least a few more languages.

I've always been put off at just how...I don't know...severe? strict? the forums rules are regarding old posts. They're not as active as I remember from years ago and that's just sad. I know I have Discord, but I don't really LIKE Discord. If someone accidentally pulls up a thread from a year ago relevant to my interests that I never saw because I wasn't here, I'm not able to add my thoughts because I know it'll be locked shortly, but at the same time, would I get told there's already a topic on it? That's just an example, because like someone earlier said...there's no search anymore. There really needs to be a search feature, especially in the help and profile/css sections.

Someone official can correct me on this, but I'd like to think that foreign-language proper names (names of pets, book and song titles, so on) and phrases that we use in English all the time (faux pas, gesundheit, et cetera) would be okay to use in a post. But starting a thread and making subsequent posts only in a language other than English would be against the rules.

Maybe this next part would be better suited to the thread about the forum giftboxes, but as I've already stated, I'm lazy and I'm already here, and it's kind of related?

But as I understand it, Keith and staff want to encourage more people to use the forums and make posts that contribute to meaningful discussion. Enticing people to post by offering prizes only solved half of the dead-forum problem. More people used the forums, all right - for a short time, to get stuff. Now, don't get me wrong, free stuff is cool, and staff can give it away for any reason they want, any time they want. But if they're looking for a long-term solution to increasing forum usage, that's obviously not working. (Also I apologize for talking about y'all in the third person, as if you weren't here and couldn't read this XD )

In addition to the other suggestions here, may I make one more? I apologize if it's already happening and I just haven't seen it, I don't check every forum and sub-forum...and I also apologize if y'all are already doing the best you can with what little time you have. But how active is staff themselves on the boards? I don't mean like addressing a problem with the site or closing a thread, I mean just...talking. Starting threads and making posts about things you like, the way you want us to do. I know some of y'all already do this, I've heard from you and it was delightful! And I also understand that some members of staff just don't have a lot of time to do that - they're busy trying to keep the site running, make new content, and so on. I'm thinking specifically of the mods and minimods, the ones whose job it is to, well, moderate the boards. Obviously that includes enforcing the rules when necessary - but I also think part of that job can - and probably should at this time, when the boards aren't very active - include fostering discussion within the boards as well. Get the ball rolling. Be the change you wish to see, and all that.

That, and please god revise the stupid necro rule. Please let the mods use their judgement when it comes to that - if the topic is still relevant and the post clearly isn't spam, does the thread really need to be closed and the person warned? If no, strike the rule for now and put it back only if reviving old threads becomes a huge problem. If yes, then keep that situation from happening in the first place by locking and/or deleting threads that have reached their "expiration date". Just please don't keep it the way it is now.

(If I'm less than coherent, I apologize in advance.)

I did some snooping for the heck of it and... Behold! The most useless subeta subforum in all of the site's history! x)

Joking aside, things really need to get condensed and re-arranged on the forums.

To start with, Subeta's rules are flaky and some are not even listed. Did you know that mass-creating-and-pounding pets is against the rules? Did you know that asking a user for their pet when the pet isn't UFA is against the rules? Did you know that not having your pet's full, sitewide name on a custom button graphic is against the rules? Well you do now! And these are just a few things that I've had to fill tickets for.

Subeta has to cover its ass because of things like child protection laws, minors being on the site, etc. so I can see why the community guidelines are more heavily enforced. Especially considering the offsite drama. Subeta isn't the place to have heavy discussions and debates over politics and... everything wrong with the world, basically. On the other hand, not everyone is going to jump at fun, thematically appropriate topics like "what's an NPCs favorite food?" or "which pet would an NPC own?". We all old n tired, fam. I'd rather shoot the breeze with friends over Discord, freaking out like a kid at Christmas because Borderlands 3 got announced at PAX East. Given the previous 17+/M ratings of the game series, I don't think discussing it is appropriate in the Entertainment forum here. I don't want to hassle staff via tickets to find out, and I don't really want to put my butt on the line posting about it, so... I just don't post about it here. |: It's as simple as that. If Discord wasn't around, I'd use Skype. Or Steam. Or any other IM program. Or e-mail, as odd as it sounds.

I fully support extending the necro rule to at least 6 months. Either add a warning that a thread is no longer active above the posting box, or auto-lock it. It's still odd to me that Subeta still has... a barely cobbled together text formatting bar. I still don't understand the purpose of the Games forum. I don't understand why the Help forum doesn't have a subforum for user-made guides. But on the other hand we have a Web Design forum that has two subforums (Color Schemes, Share Your Site) and all three of them are dead.

Merge the Achievements & Games forums. Retain former topic titles somehow in the Item Pricing & Help forums. Seeing 20 topics titled "LOCK PLS" when I'm looking to see if someone already made a topic for an item or a question is... frankly, useless. Add a CW subforum for item pricing. The whole Creative Corner is a mess. Commerce isn't much better. Tuck Roleplaying forum into Creativity. Prune out the Entertainment forum: Literature, Comics and Manga subforum. Music, TV & Movies subforum (includes anime). Internet & Gaming subforum. Please fix the forum pulse. I don't want to read certain subforums but I can't unselect & save them so it sticks in the settings. It keeps getting reset. Please fix post likes for mobile users. Please fix the search.

I'm confused how we're even allowed to have a subforum for relationships, and one for issues & advice. imo, Subeta is... really not the place for any of that. .__.

In that line, I wonder if it would be possible to have certain forums gated off for 21+ users, or would that be too much to moderate? Or to be able to flag topics as 21+, so that only users above that age bracket can see them? Like I've said before, I understand why Subeta has to cover its ass, but most of the userbase is over 18 and we'd rather go offsite to talk about Subeta than try to figure out if The Thing We Want To Discuss is against the rules or not.

[edit]Editing to add that, because the Search feature doesn't work, I've started subscribing to threads of interest just to have them saved across all devices. I have 269 threads I'm subscribed to, and only a tiny handful is because I want to keep tabs of the topic. Whether that's good for the site, I don't know, and it's probably the most ass-backwards way of keeping tabs on things. |: But because I can't really search for a phrase or an item accurately, I just sub to interesting stuff and disable notifications for new posts. Keeps the useful CSS trick topics saved, at least.

Is it though? All the rules say is:

That's pretty cut and dry, and doesn't leave a lot of room for interpretation (pun not intended). Explicit clarification would be much appreciated.

What do these two things mean?

I do that subscribing to threads basically to bookmark them thing too. Though I don't have 269 of them, so it's not that crazy for me.

@ Poetry You know how people sometimes put a little fancy button that links to one of their pets? Buttons are required to have your full pet's name. For example, take my pet Hued_327. In his profile story, he's called Jerry. If I made a custom button linking to his page, I would have to use Hued_327 as the name for the graphic. I'm not allowed to use his nickname, or a shortened version of the pet's name, because that's considered misrepresenting my owned pets.

The forum pulse is that box above all the forums on the main forum page. If you click "Edit Settings", you can toggle forums & subforums will show up in your forum pulse when there's a new post. Right now, though, You can only toggle forums, not subforums as settings in the forum pulse. So if you try to toggle on notifications for the Bragging & Complaining forum, but toggle off the ones for the Gift Bragging subforum, it won't save. It will still have every subforum for the Bragging & Complaining forum toggled on.

I hope I explained it well! I derp'd in my post about the forum pulse - there is no dropdown in the forum pulse settings, lemme fix that. :'D

[edit]Editing this to add: this is probably somewhat unpopular as an opinion, but a lot of things that could potentially be social on the site are completely anonymous. Post likes, avatar likes, pet likes. I'm not saying "go make them all public!" because drama and anxiety exist and they are both shitty, but maybe let me choose to toggle it on. Let me see who liked my post. Who liked my avatar in the past week. Who liked my pets. I'm nosy, and it could be a potentially cool way of striking up a conversation. If your HA is dressed up as a popular character from a show or video game, or if you have a fanpet for a particular video game character. Or if someone agrees with something you've said. Seeing a username somehow feels less lonely than seeing a number.

I don't post on the "favorite pet of the person above!" or the "is this HA a demon/human/angel", and similar topics. But if I saw someone like one of my pets, I'll go check them and their pets out. Maybe try talking to them if anxiety isn't eating up my three functioning braincells. I don't always want to talk on the forums, but nerding out over a mutual interest? I'm down.

If you think you miss forum search, let me tell you I 100000000000% agree with you and miss it. It made my job easier in finding duplicates. I also have been the one recently to do most of the locking (see archived suggestions). I am always open to feedback in my lock responses. So to read that you think you're getting yelled at bothers me. I promise I am not a scary person. I also don't mind getting comments or smails about suggestions. Since I too don't have forum search, if you want me to manually go through the forums to see if your thing was suggested I will. I have done it in the past. So always feel free to check in. I usually say something along the lines of "Please check out, or post your support and link to the other forum. Locking as this is considered a duplicate" So if you have a better way of seeming more friendly about it, feel free to tell me. I am not yelling at anyone though. It just makes it easier for staff to see discussion a particular topic all in one place.

I actually have made various posts outside of just being a mod. I like to post on the welcomes board every once in a while. I respond on the help & questions one when I know the answer and it hasn't already been given. I have a forum in Chit Chat RL Savings, Budgeting, Finance, Debt Killing Chat. Like other people, it just dies off but that is ok. I had a small talk one too but that is totally dead now. I have even made suggestions myself here and there or respond to other suggestions. Just because I have a purple icon doesn't mean much. I can only flag my post purple in my own forum and that is only when I am locking, or asking people to stay on topic. Otherwise, my posts look just like everyone else and is treated like normal. Other mods can be found elsewhere as well.

I can only speak for Suggestion and Ideas as that is my forum to mod. The necro rule there is 15 months. It is one of the exceptions. Problem and Bugs is also one with a longer life. When you mean warned, do you mean officially? Because that is not something we do. We can't officially warn anyone. We can, however, flag posts and get it addressed by staff. (Which is honestly done in extreme spam or targetting other users or like clearly breaking a rule (admitting they have multiple accounts))Our warnings like in the thread itself is just like a hey please don't necro a thread x months old in this forum .etc.

I would never "like" anyone's anything ever again if they could look me up and pester me about it.

For me, the ability to give kudos anon is really nice. I don't have to engage if I don't want to and if I do want to there are plenty of ways to do so. sMail, comments and/or forum posts.

I get being curious about who liked something, but for me its just a matter that someone out there noticed, and that's good enough for me.

TBH, because of the necro rule, I never browse the Forums past the first page of boards. Period. I never go past the first page, and never have. I just assume its full of boards that are too old to respond to, and don't really grasp the proper etiquette (is a month too old?); knowing the rules of Subeta is my responsibility, but as for learning to recognize the potential for a mod to interpret my actions in bad faith...

As for the Forum environment,

LMFAO. I never had this specific experience, but this describes in detail the exact encounters I've had in the past. I feel that there are some rules on Subeta that you only learn by committing a faux-pas, because they are not obvious, and I suspect it's because Subeta has so much going on for it all at once (you could RS and train your pets for years without ever going into the forums).

I'll give you one example: I was legitimately posting on the Box Farming threads. Mods began to warn us that spamming was against the rules: I stopped posting in the threads. Caveat: I thought maybe, like claim-dancing threads, the box threads were an exception. And then, clearly they weren't. But I learned second-hand from other users (not from mod posts) that the spamming they were referring to was sort of an exploit in the code: users were clicking the "Post" button like a million times, which I assume glitched/created a shitton of posts. I didn't know this was even possible.

I assumed spamming was just the act of posting repeatedly-- and that "dance with above" threads, like threads in URG's, possibly the box threads (still no idea) were exceptions. Who knows. I still don't know. But

I don't post in the Forums that often because there's not enough clarification or consistency for me to feel comfortable. That may in part be due to the PG13 thing, too.

When it comes to the Forums, I want to talk and meet new people but it's so compartmentalized that it's actually cluttered. I've had spells where I didn't come on for months at the time due to accessibility, but ever since I finally got another laptop I've been trying to come on just about every day. Just doing stuff around the site and then going on Discord/doing something else and refreshing here and there to see if I have any new events gets boring, and I can only browse the adoption/Subeta Pet forums for so long.

I agree with what others have said here, particularly about the necro rule, merging some forums into other groups and making the rules for the forums more accessible. Though I personally would love to see more Subeta centered topics. "What pet would (NPC) have" sounds like a lot of fun, and with on site topics that aren't centered around suggestions for improvement/critique I think the overall environment could be very relaxed.

Overall a lot of me not posting on the forums has to do with my own caveman/perfectionist brain. I've not had any bad experiences on the forums and I'm always worried about being in the wrong place. With clearer/updated rules and an overhaul on the forums, I think interaction between users could be sparked again. I know at least, for me, seeing all the forums and their sub-forums is very intimidating when you're trying to find a place to chill or when you're new to the site.

I would love this! I was just thinking about this yesterday, and the option to make it public or not would be a great idea. Or maybe toggling to remain anonymous vs. not?

The minimum age for Facebook and Twitter is 13, the same as Subeta. I don't have a Twitter account but you don't need one to read public posts. Minors can follow recognised politicians from anywhere on the political spectrum on Twitter.

Minors can follow all kinds of pages on Facebook - recognised politicians, environmental and campaign groups, online newspapers from anywhere on the political spectrum and bands and musicians etc etc. I don't know how many 13 years olds want to discuss Brexit, the upcoming EU elections or everything that's wrong with the world but they can if they feel like it.

This doesn't mean we should bring back the debate forum, of course, but today's 13 year olds are like the rest of us. If they don't want to be limited to topics like What Did You Have For Breakfast they'll go elsewhere.

I agree if the purpose of the forum rules is to protect minors. Talking about personal issues provides more scope for predators to move in than discussions about globalisation and Neoliberalism.

The problem with that is establishing who is 21+ and what kind of proof we'd need to send in.

I agree that some kind of official clarification of the language rule would be greatly appreciated. But until that comes, I honestly am going to stick to my interpretation of it. As you most likely know, there are loads of words and phrases that we use in English that are taken directly from Latin, Spanish, French, German, just to name a few languages - words that we use without a second thought.

It would be extremely hard - for me, anyway - to constantly go over any post I might make to make sure I didn't accidentally say something like et cetera or taco. In fact, if it turns out I absolutely have to do that, I wouldn't bother posting at all. But I find it very hard to believe the rule really is that literal and strict in the first place. I hope it isn't. Also your pets sound really cool; it would be great for you to be able to talk about them without worrying =)

Also also, agreed with your summary of the thread so far.

Sorry, poor choice of words on my part! (Poor choice of tone, too - I skimmed over my post again and I'm kind of cringing at how preachy I sounded) I didn't mean officially warned, more like spoken to. I also don't mean to imply I don't want there to be any rules at all, or that you or any other mod shouldn't enforce them.

What bothers me is that I've seen people who clearly just want to post on a topic they're interested in (as opposed to spamming or deliberately trying to start trouble), and they maybe get in a hurry or get excited and don't check the date on the thread. Then later, when someone discovers the mistake, the person's publicly told not to post there and the thread's closed. Even when this is done politely, I can't help but think this situation sucks for both the mod and the person who accidentally broke the rule. It's extra work for the mod, and embarrassing for the poster to varying degrees. I can't read people's minds so this is speculation, but while a lot of people would just shrug that off and make a mental note to check the date next time, for others even that little bit of negative attention could make them shy away from posting altogether (which is not the message you intended at all!).

This is why I want old threads to be locked automatically - it avoids this situation entirely. I know the rule's pretty clear, but people just forget sometimes, you know?

To end on a good note, I'm glad that you and others on staff are active on the boards in more than just an official capacity. =) I mean, I know about five or six names of people on staff that I see a lot on the boards I visit and news comments, but still good to know that there's more besides that that I don't often get a chance to see. Reason I asked in the first place was I kind of skimmed the boards I don't usually frequent, and saw some names of people on staff that I didn't recognize at all.

I think other people in this thread have brought up far more valid reasons why people don't use the forums very often. I hope this information helps turn that around. For as grouchy as I sound sometimes, I really do want things to be better here for everyone.