Vent + Support Thread
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Everyday is the same shit Everyday is the same shit Everyday is the same shit Everyday is the same shit Everyday is the same shit Everyday is the same shit Everyday is the same shit Everyday is the same shit
Not everything is about you. Give me a fucking break already.
Hey, all! I had some questions about pronouns and changing my preferred pronouns! I stuck it under the spoiler below :3
Pronouns
First of all, thanks for taking a look at my little ramble.
SO, I've always been uncomfortable being referred to as a girl/woman/female by others. More recently, I've been thinking of using they/them pronouns. They/them feels more right and more fluid, so it's what I would prefer. I am rather feminine, though. Like, dresses, minimal makeup when I feel like wearing it (which is like 2x a month but still lol), which I think can come with some assumptions about gender and confusion about gender identify. I'm just a bit nervous about the adjustment (family, Subeta, professional life, etc.). Basically, what was your adjustment like when you changed pronouns? Any advice?
[Spoiler=Pronouns, Misgendering] i first started using they/them with my closest online friend, who adapted very well. other online friends, be they new ones or ones who had to change from she/her, also didn't give me any trouble. two of my closest offline friends said they'd refuse to use them bc they/them was plural and i was only one person. both eventually backed down after i emailed them long arguments as to why it was natural citing historic writing and natural linguistic tendency to use singular they/them anyway (eg, "hey do you know when the pizza guy will be here? i need to be ready for them"), plus seeing me /very/ visibly upset by it. my family is uh well mother keeps telling me that my grandparents don't understand and will never get it right and i just have to deal with it (i'm refusing to just deal with it, and am also currently refusing to talk to my grandfather) my other family members have... mostly they still don't get it right mother keeps bringing it up like a point of pride whenever she uses my correct pronouns while talking to literally anyone else like i should give her a fucking trophy for not misgendering me when talking to strangers maybe 30% of the time i've found that the younger and more internet-y someone is the more likely they are to go along with it, especially if i only know them online people may apologise and make a big deal out of OH NO THEY MESSED UP HOW TERRIBLE THEY ARE if they misgender you, people may tell you to suck it up/get over it/just fucking deal, people may refuse on the basis that it's plural, people may insist that they Just Can't Handle the change, people might just casually without making a big deal out of anything switch to using your new pronouns and those people are ones you should probably keep around
(also i still misgender /myself/ sometimes like 4 years later, and it was /super/ awkward for like the first several months just bc... i wasn't used to it yet) (you also may have to give an in-depth lesson on being non-binary transgender and that nb is a thing that /exists/ whenever you tell someone your preferred pronouns; wanting to strangle people is completely normal, probably)[/spoiler]
[Spoiler] Ah, thank you for responding. ^^ You covered all of my concerns well, even ones I hadn't really mentioned. Like friends arguing about plural forms and stuff. Honestly, I don't have TOO many friends any more, heh. My uncle brought that argument up once, because we were discussing gender and sexuality, and it made me uncomfortable since I was hoping to tell everyone one day I'd rather go by they pronouns but that made me hesitant. He gets so easily influenced by whatever news he watches/reads and gets weird opinions from it ugh. Also, the bit about adjusting and misgendering yourself was super helpful. I hadn't really thought of that yet! PS: I added a spoiler thing to your post, just in case! [/spoiler]
SPOILER (click to toggle)
im not sure i have good advise? but my experiences mirror some of what others are talking about...
im not really "out" irl in my reasoning for using "them/they" though neither of my found family would--nor have--objected to using these pronouns more & more for me as time goes on (it helps that my roommate already uses them & IS out with us; they are part of the reason i even started considering it for myself)
everyone in this group obviously uses it just fine for me
outside of that, ive been out as trans both in my family & in my life for over 12 years so it wouldnt be too far of a stretch to like, begin dialogue
but at the same time im still anxious about trying to broach the subject of yet more gender identity topics (particularly with my mother) & it doesnt seem like it really matters for me personally at this stage in my life other than to just do it for the sake of doing it so i havent... bothered
that would of course be a different situation from person to person & im comfortable with things as they are for now
i, too, misgender myself sometimes, even after all this time, both for "he/him" & for the more recent shift into "they/them" so it doesnt really go away, i guess?
i think it has to do a bit with the fact that... the socialising at young ages is that deeply engrained in us, & also that we are only human; we make mistakes
also for me specifically i have cognitive problems; i flub up often enough with talking in my day to day language; i get words mixed up in my brain so i no longer get too fussed when i do it to myself or feel like ive somehow... i guess betrayed? myself that its hard for me to be mad at other people any more when they do it to me especially if they dont even know me
mostly i just get sad & tired & feel old
i dont think its dyslexia but i definitely have problems where i switch letters & words or mash them up into new word salad & pronouns arent spared from it
i dont know if that helps any
uhh what else
oh: you asked about how to reconcile femininity with desire to appear & present nonbinary as well as use more gender neutral terms--
i am like
the most feminine of dudes out there
im gonna put my grubby stumpy claw hands all over masculine pronouns & gender neutral everything as much as i am the so called feminine things
its all mine
i paint my nails, i dream of dresses & cute sparkly things & cutesy stuff & flowers
i spent all my childhood fighting against it all because i was terrified people would look at me & go AH-HAH!!!! YOU FOOL!! YOU ABSOLUTE FOOL! YOU ARENT A BOY! HERES THE PROOF
so i rejected everything & worked very hard to be the stereotype of boyhood & tomfoolery that i could (& it didnt work anyway but im nothing if not stubborn)
im indulging myself in all the pies now as an adult
im past 30
i do what i want
this... probably doesnt help much either
but basically im trying to say that
you do you
be neutrois & be glittery pink if thats what you want
no one can define you but you
sorry my reply is all a mess & all over the place, my spoons are running very low today
also--
SPOILER (click to toggle)
if friends are digging heels in to the point you have to write essays on why they should give what you deserve as a common decency/respect
i would question them & their priorities on what matters in a friendship
same for family
but i totally do get that this is a thing that happens (it happened to me also)
its just
dumb
& makes me sad every time i hear about it
My two cents!
pronouns/misgendering
I came across very little misgendering actually, but it's because I'm lucky to be able to surround myself with decent people. I ran away from my family a year ago and haven't talked to them much since then. I've never talked to them about gender/sexuality and don't intend to. I don't care about being "out" to them and I honestly don't care what they think or how they talk about me to their friends lol. I realize though that my situation is kind of unique, obviously it's not always a good solution to just... run away from your family haha.
At first it is an adjustment and you will find yourself misgendering yourself sometimes just because you're so used to the other pronouns. When that happens it's easy to feel guilty or like you're not valid, so be sure to remind yourself that it's normal because it's such a big change from what you are used to. It doesn't mean you're less valid for wanting different pronouns. It just means that the life you've lived has had a huge influence on you, which is totally normal and understandable. Any change, even the most positive change, will be hard to transition so please don't let anyone invalidate you over that if that happens.
I still go by they/them IRL for what it's worth. I decided to go by he/him on Subeta because of another issue which... is kind of frustrating actually, and I didn't run into until I became staff. But I realized that if you go by they/them, it tends to lead to conversations about it. Whereas going by a binary pronoun, people tend to not make a big a deal over it. I do prefer they/them but at some point I just want to do my job and not have anyone be focusing on my gender identity too much. It kinda sucks. But I am really hoping that eventually they/them will be just as normalized as he and she pronouns.
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pronoun bs, people are actual shit
if the people in your life genuinely care about your well-being and happiness more than they do the stupid shit that prejudices their minds, they'll adapt to the pronouns. it might be rocky for a bit, but they'll adapt. honestly some of my friends i know are my friends fuck up my pronouns on occasion, but not really more frequently than i fuck up my own goddamn pronouns and it's more bc i used she/her for the majority of my life and when they first knew me, so it's still... y'know, adjusting and shit. but my friends don't want to hurt me so they try. as long as people are clearly making AN ACTUAL EFFORT to get your pronouns right, they're good people. it WILL be a bit of a struggle even for you because wow so much life not using those pronouns and habits are hard to break. that is a-okay it happens to everyone u are still nb and cool.
if the people in your life fucking refuse to use your pronouns even after you've explained that it hurts and is upsetting (bc! cis people? arent gonna understand this bs innately, it's gonna seem like not a big deal AT ALL to them if they don't have much knowledge of LGBT+ stuff already)... well, like, honestly get them out of your life. easier said than done sure but they are clearly Bona Fide People Who Dont Fucking Care About You. even if they say they care, if they can't make a relatively simple change to their language bc they value their words over your comfort... fuck 'em. they don't. and eventually you'll find better people who do.
i haven't been able to actually disown most of my family bc i need financial support and a place to live, but i no longer consider most of them to be my family. not just because of pronoun trouble, but in some cases, that was a definite straw that broke the camel's back. instead, i managed to find people who actually do care, and have similarly unofficially adopted two siblings to replace the family that didn't. they're out there somewhere, basically.
people suck so hard guys
i actually found it a lot more forgivable for two of my friends, bc neither of them actually realised it was hurting me or that it was a super serious matter, and immediately like backed down when i explained and clearly WAS hurt and upset by it. teenage cishet white boys don't really like... get into all the LGBT shit or realise how much this can hurt. it seemed like a simple change that wasn't too important and might be optional to them. kinda : at one of them bc most of our mutual friends WERE LGBT, but he wasn't involved in the community much. the other one has been nothing but supportive since. i mean sometimes he's kind of bad at being supportive because he literally doesn't get that something might hurt, but if it's explained to him he's like "oh SHIT i fucked up", apologises, and doesn't do the thing again. it's very clear that he does care about me a lot so i'm pretty fine with him.
my family on the other hand
family sucks
"oh, your aunt is French, she doesn't understand" "oh, your grandfather is too old and sick to learn new pronouns, please don't make a big deal out of it" "your grandmother is trying, give her a break, you don't have to bring it up every time"
i literally try not to speak to most of my family anymore. because clearly almost none of them understand or care enough about me to learn and remember something relatively simple that hurts me a hell of a lot when they don't do it. so, fuck them, i'm gonna go find a new family. a better family. somewhere.
... the internet, probably. i hear you can find most things on the internet nowadays. found a brother and sister there already who actually Do care about me and have been summarily adopted as new, better family.
i definitely agree with you tho. it's dumb and sad. why must this happen
Pronouns
I'm in a similar position as you in that I haven't really told anyone, minus Subeta, that I want to go by they/them. I still say that she/her is fine, but honestly, I'm not comfortable with it. I would like to go by they/them everywhere one day, except with my family. (Not getting into that mess.)
Something I can say is take your time. It is an adjustment and one you'll want to be ready for. Also, remember that you are who you are and don't let anyone bring you down because of it.
[Spoiler=Wow, super late reply] Hey! I didn't reply for FOREVER because sometimes when my anxiety gets the best of me, I let my Subeta alerts pile up and this one definitely one that I was purposely avoiding a little bit because I knew it would take more thought to reply to heh. I'm going to give a little bit of catch-all reply, so I apologize for not personalizing my response to everyone - I read everyone's replies and mostly wanted to give an update and let y'all know I wasn't trying to ignore your kindness as much as ... feeling overwhelmed by life?
I really appreciate everyone's input <3 I've started going by 'they' more in my everyday life, but mostly to close friends and everyone's been chill so far. Which is great! I think it's a nice step towards being able to be more comfortable with being more 'out' about it.
All-in-all, my family is mostly chill about stuff and I'm close with my family, so I think they'd come around in time if they had any reservations at first. I think it's just weird and new to them sometimes, and I do think people can take a long time to adjust, especially when they haven't really been exposed to something and aren't really aware of it? They've been chill with me being out and having a girlfriend, who they've accepted into the fam 110%, so I probably shouldn't worry about them as much as I have sometimes. I think lol.
Again, I really appreciate everyone's thoughtful replies and I apologize for taking forever to reply. ❤️
[/spoiler]
Reply
No worries about the late reply. c: I can get the same way in terms of anxiety and I can avoid replying to something for weeks.
It's really awesome that everyone has been accepting about you using "they" so far! I'm super happy for you! :D
TW: Animal Death, Depression
Tonight my rat Pepper passed away.
He was one of a pair of senior bonded brothers.
At two-and-a-half years old, for being petstore rescues, with chronic respiratory issues antibiotics wouldn't touch, I like to think I gave him the best life I could.
But this also means his brother is going to go soon as well.
Foster, his brother, is already showing signs of severe distress and anxiety.
I give him a matter of days before I have to go through this all over again.
So soon after losing my colony of senior mice too....
Me @ Myself
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