Thanks for the explanation. And I do get it. However the prices keep going up and up and up. That's the major issue here. I want to say that its discouraging for new users who have no items at all - but its also discouraging for us oldtimers. I've been on site for 15+ years and I quest regularly and I keep up with buying from the seasonal QS, but even I'm falling behind. I can't imagine what it feels like for a newbie, or even a more casual user.

Its fine to have expensive things. Its fine having to prioritize. Its okay not to be able to afford that one thing, but when its a shop full of stuff its highly discouraging. It doesn't make you want to set a goal and keep plugging away at it because you'll just never, ever be caught up!

There are only a limited number of points you can earn per day...if it was just a matter of applying oneself and plugging away, that's one thing, but when its mathematically impossible, one just wants to give up already.

And that's why you'll see in the items I added last night, I didn't even break 20 quest points for pricing. Whenever doing the monthly items, I try to get a range so again not everything is clumped in one area or too easy/too hard. And I stay in a certain range for the Seasonal. :)

I totally understand having some items be more expensive than others, and I do think it makes sense to have them be seasonal items, BUT the numbers in the OP are a little bit wild.

The winter seasonal items available right now would take over 1/3 of a whole year to earn the necessary quest points (with a GA, with questing every single day, based on 's numbers in the OP). The most recent batch of winter seasonal items total 495 Quest Points. Assuming all seasonal item batches will be roughly the same total, you're adding 16 days worth of quests (with a GA) each season.

So assuming the numbers are roughly equal across seasons and that the new additions will also be roughly equal, starting fresh today, it will take approximately a year and a half to earn the Quest Points necesary for all four seasons worth of items, during which time you'll get another ~3 months worth of questing stacked on top of that from new additions (assuming you want only exactly one of each item). Note that this doesn't include any non-seasonal items at all. Those will take a solid 10 months of questing on top of it (during which time you'll have another ~1.5 to 2 months worth of seasonal releases tacked on top again) so we're looking at, very roughly, 3 years worth of questing, every single day, with a GA, just to catch up to the releases that are currently out (my math came out to 2.75 years).

That just seems like a pretty big ask to me. Yeah, some users will not need things and will sell their points, but some users also need multiples of various items for various reasons. Once you're caught up I'm sure (assuming you could keep up with the frequent questing) it's possible to keep up with releases as they happen, but for a brand new user or a casual one who doesn't quest every single day, catching up alone could take a long time

I'm sure this has been stated before, but if someone's hoarding a bunch of a currency, adding a mega expensive item isn't going to make them spend it. That will only frustrate the people who consistently spend that currency.

Speaking as someone who earned a ton of points way before the quest shop was even a thing (and they were only Pete Points, remember that?) I could always stay ahead of the curve because I had a nice padding in reserve. Until I decided I need a second copy of all the books for my second battle pet. I'm pretty sure I struggled for over a year to get caught up on affording everything I needed, between books, new additions and seasonal items, to the point where I was buying QPs from other people because I knew there was no way I could get on top of things after a certain point.

Now about a year and half later I am caught up and am back to stockpiling points for when I have to spend hundreds again on the season change. So no, doing something like adding a 100 point item (hyperbole) isn't going to make me jump for joy. It's only going to annoy me now that I finally got my head above the water.

This is the same deal with the Blue Building points that I was scowling over. The past five items added were 5 thousand points each. One of them was a book. Which many people need multiple of. The is also a book at 25 thousand points. Which people need multiple of. Don't you think if I've 46,000 points stockpiled it's because I'm still saving for the 3 copies of this Vinyl that I still need, and not because it's an invitation to add wildly expensive items to "tempt" me? 😔

I don't think Survival skins is a fair comparison, because skins have always been incompletable.

But collections like Beanbags, Foods, Plushies, Books are collections which completion is attainable. But even if I do every quest every single day, I cannot catch up is really unreasonable.

Quest points simply aren't comparable with crystals, which can be infinitely farmed.

It's understandable to introduce high cost items if the currency is unlimited, but when you can only get so many per day/per year, it's incredibly frustrating that even users who optimise 100% of the daily site play cannot get everything they want.

Amber, there's no way it's even possible for me to spend my wizard tokens and crystals with how the shops work even if you were stocking things I wanted to buy and they were even there to buy when I see the news post. And the reason why I have so many tokens and crystals? Because with the quest shop design and pricing, even with long term goals, planning, and prioritization, my head is barely above water. If your answer is to whittle down my already narrow focus, then I can not quest or participate in events for years and be just fine and dandy.

My priorities are in order. My plans and goals are pretty modest. I'm questing every day with a gold account. The cost of upkeep is high, and the cost of starting is demoralizing. Being told L2P when we're pointing out insanity is kind of.. well, I knew I was screaming into the void.

by the way- I can't spend to resell because I have to plan on the fact that items will absolutely be priced 25000-50000 points/tokens/crystals.

There's chasing a goal and just running in a rat wheel. It feels like running in a rat wheel.

52 quest points for the average seasonal item (thanks for the data) is under 2m sP at current rates.

I don’t understand what the issue is or why everyone is upset?

Do you never want to spend your sP? I feel like the attitudes revolving this topic is pretty unfair. There are some people who rely on selling quest points to make their sP, but you guys want to take that method away from them so you can have more free stuff? Absolutely insane.

I don't think we are asking for excess QPs to be sold to be taken away as an option at all. The current situation is there is not enough QPs in the economy for the demand.

There is an abundance of users, myself included, who are not able to quest daily, and have MASSIVE quest point wish lists, most of which I have set to private because the amount I need is impossible, no one has enough for me to buy that many QPs, and I'm an older user who had made my best to keep up for the first 2 or so years that QPs were released, imagine someone who is new to the game, or returned from a hiatus.

Regardless of if you purchase items via your own-earnt QP or purchase through another user, it's a huge inconvenience to buy one copy at a time, if you intend to have multiples. So if I do build up QP, until I can buy enough copies and I spend it all at once. Likewise, if a user is selling QP, but they only have enough for 1-2 things, I'm not likely to purchase because it simply makes my wishlist a mess, where I don't know how many copies I still need.

Even if price points are dropped, or if a perk or event allows excess QP into the economy, I will 100% still be behind in the Quest Shop, so the market for user-sold QPs will still exist.

I'm spending my sP in other areas, which I can only afford to do because of grinding qp.

I just feel bad for the content creators of this game. Any time something is not 100% accessible for free by the player base there is backlash.

You don’t want to spend sP on limited quest shop items because your sP is allocated in other areas? Fine you’ve made that decision though.

You have 10+ pets and can’t purchase singles of these copies because it’ll make organization a bit difficult? Fine, but you’ve also made a decision not to purchase the items that are available to you.

These items are not locked behind some steel door, everyone has access to them. The gripes about these items is because of personal decisions not to purchase them with sP because of one reason or the other. That is not Subeta’s fault.

eh, you're overestimating the amount of pets that get seasonal books, and way overestimating the amount of pets that get quest shop books at all. In the end they can all be pounded or returned their original owners to lower cost.

I don't think it's entitled to ask Subeta to consider making the content they made available to the players who want to enjoy the site. Nobody is saying "please make sure we get everything for no work" we're simply pointing out that users who do all their quests DAILY, still cannot get everything they want.

But you can get everything you want. You’re choosing not to use your sP on it.

If I’m wrong link me to your QP purchasing thread. Everyone who’s made one has gotten swift responses for as little as 25k/qp. That’s 1.25m per average seasonal item. That’s not a ridiculous price to pay.

You can not get everything you want because you want multiple of certain items. Where does it end? If you have 100 pets should they all have access to the seasonal books for free?

I think the point was trying to make is that subeta has always been "you can get involved with any aspect of the site you want, but cannot focus on all aspects at once." If you're trying to collect all the beanbags, clothes, books, plushies and minions, then yes it's made to be almost impossible to have enough points to buy everything in a short period of time. The seasonal items are on a rotation so you could save up the points to get those first and then buy the year round stuff with the sP you earn from completing quests. Some of the year round stuff also tends to sell for cheaper than the qp equivalent.

I don't agree with the seasonal shop items constantly going up in price as new items get released instead of all just being 50 points a piece. They are all just as rare and on the same rotation so why is one book 45 and another 65?

You're not countering the main argument, that even users who do all their quests DAILY, still cannot get everything they want.

I'm not vocalising as much about my personal lack of fulfilment from QPs.

I am fully aware that how many copies I want is not core to the way Subeta calculates cost of items - but I am certain I am not alone. If you really want to know - I only read QP seasonals to 1 pet and non-seasonal to 4 pets. I certainly have a priority order as to whom I buy for, but from each non-seasonal shop I am missing roughly 500 QP's worth of items that I /really/ care about obtaining, I simply don't have the funds to purchase 150m's worth of QP. This is not counting clothing I like and would love to own, or minions I might like to have for a treasure, because I'm not even putting them on my list of consideration with the shortage.

I don't think having the mindset that people can choose not to want the item is really fair, or beneficial to site enjoyment. It's actually to Subeta's credit that items are being released with wonderful art, and people care about collections that they want to work towards them. I never assume that items released will simply be obtainable, but the current QP system leaves everyone in deficit, except a very small population that quest daily and do not care about collecting. It means items that are being released are not being enjoyed by the user base, and is counter to the "playability" of the site.

I don't think the QP system was designed to be an "exclusive/rare" shop like high tier battle tokens, loyalty shop, or the sorts, the item base in this store has simply outgrown the current earnings/cost structure.

It's not a great comparison, sure, but it's the first thing I could think of that was really hey you need to figure out what you want first to go for, move to the next one, etc.

That’s the problem “everything they want” is not a quantifiable figure. Which is why I asked where does it end?

Multiples of plushies and beanbags for collections and TCs multiple of books for numerous battle pets.

No, people do not need to have “everything they want”. Buy the QPs from another user. Make a thread and someone will sell the amount you’re (not you specifically, but generalized second person lol) missing.

But a person that does quests daily every day can get what they want? The answer is you need to use sP and QP to do it. Can you do it right away? No. You need to save up and determine which items are worth the QP and which are not. You can wait for items to deflate and then buy. I am not a plushie or beanbag person so I can't speak to that. I do collect books to read to all my pets. So far I've been able to read all the books to my four top pets, including the seasonal ones. It took some time and I did buy other items like wears and tc items along the way, but was still manageable.