Cash Shop Wearable Council
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Whew, thank you for that post!
I want to be clear that we are not going to stop making wearables or other items on the site. The point I was making is that there are a few options for a creative team as small as ours, working on a project as big as Subeta. If we can get the CW market to a place where if you're looking for a special wig it's the first place you go, our creative department has one less wig to draw and can instead focus on long term improvements to the site. A recent example is the icons on the user profiles, they're small and you'll stop noticing them in a month, but they are HUGE IMPROVEMENTS over the buttons that were there previously, and give a lot more personality to the page. These are the kind of things we want our creative team working on, not a new pair of pants (not that there is anything wrong with a new pair of pants!)
I know that we talk about things that we've missed the mark on a lot, and one of those things is the tea hut. It's a great example, because the programming for it was wrapped up (at least for the first phase) a long time ago, but it's the creative work of building the characters, the story and the art for all of the items that we wanted involved that have continuously put it on the back burner because it's significantly more time consuming. If we had focused 100% of our creative energy on it ("No new items are going out this month, we're instead working on x") I think we could have pushed it over the finish line! Instead our small creative department worked on it, upcoming holidays, and regular releases.
I don't say this to complain, we made choices and built the site in a way and are now reflecting on how we could build it with more community involvement. We want Subeta to be somewhere that we're building together.
I also want to address the "unpaid labor" portion! I'm going to be frank, and I hope that these posts in the last few weeks have made it clear that I'm invested in Subeta and want this site to succeed. I have not been paid for my work on Subeta in more than three years, because generally we haven't made enough money to pay me (not that I cost a ton, just we get to the end of the bank account after having paid everyone else and the servers) and I'd rather the money go to our incredible creative team, pay for servers, etc. This isn't a sad story for me - I've been fortunate to be employed doing the thing I love (building community, programming) and that means I can pour purely passion into Subeta.
My focus for the next few months is to find ways to empower the community on the site to be more involved in decision making, in building the game and in moving us forward. In some cases that will be things that you could get paid for in the real world, but hopefully adding to the game will be a worthwhile trade off.
Another somewhat unrelated thing: As we refocus our creative department and start picking the "big bets" we want to make for the rest of the year, there are going to be opportunities for us to hire freelance artists to help us create some of the beautiful visions we're coming up with. Our CW artists will be an excellent pool of creative people to tap into (and pay!) for that kind of work.
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I'd really appreciate a little more clarification if possible just so that I'm understanding your wording correctly and hopefull to calm my anxious potato nerves. Also please understand I am not actually trying to attack you or anyone. I'm just really shit at word tone.
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Staff will still produce wearables, but this will be under specific circumstances only from my understanding? Can you clarify what these types of circumstances are? Will these be wearables for specific things or shops only for example; Plots, events, cash shop? Or will there also still be releases occassionally for normal sP wearables, just not as often? ((I am concerned about the pressure this will place on the very small range of CW artists. I believe there are less than 15 of us? And even less who open shop and / or operate onsite. I also really worry that this puts the pressure on releasers to give the site basics while charging premium prices for those 'basic' wearables.))
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Would you mind explaining why it's more important for you (or staff) to speak with a very small part of the demographic you're trying to reach (this counsil you're creating) versus listening to the massive community posts that have been made with huge ranges of thoughts and opinions? Is this simply a lack of time / ability for staff to process all that information, or...? ((I am concerned that only listening to a small handful of voices will make the community miss out on opportunities that the entire community could have provided if they'd been allowed input. I'm also very worried this will become about popularity. Even staff members have shown bias towards certain artists and releasers in the past. Giving certain people more room to 'test things' than others, and then stomping their foot down on anyone who tries to follow suit.))
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Lastly, I'm still concerned about the unpaid aspect of this. I totally get not paying people if it's just a simple questionaire or an opinion you're asking from them, but if you're also asking them to create guides and write up rules and information, will those be the things that you're considering compensation for? ((Let's not lie, I wouldn't ever make it onto this council with how staff feels about me, and that's okay. I just want to make sure the people who do aren't being taken advantage of. This community (CWs) means a LOT to me. I've been here since day one, and this is very much my home. Big changes like this shake me to my core with fear because it could very much ruin a SUPER important part of my life, and the lives of people I care about. I realize how dramatic that sounds, but I love these people that I've spent the last 12 years with. lmao))
This is sounding good, ive always been fond of the custom wearable contests during events too
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I love getting notices for CWS. But what can be done about individual notices for every CW in one shop. I literally just got about 20 individual notices for items in one CW shop. This has happened with other CW owners, too. Just looking for change in rule or policy Or a new one, not looking to punish any one.
This is a great idea, items should automatically come in all the human skintones. Honestly making it a requirement to have a version in the 10 basic skintones with no extra cost (and transformable if that’s an option!!) would be awesome. The potential for the body mods&positions market is huge. Creative arm positions without having to awkwardly hide the hands? Sign me up! We could have entire bare arms doin’ stuff!
Thanks for the questions. I understand the anxiety of change, especially when you've invested so much time and energy and money into something! I'll be honest, I found your questions really pointed, so I'm trying to respond to the question itself and not the tone.
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We will be focusing our creative efforts on plots, events, and new features, and that is where items will come from and will use those avenues to make the game more exciting and fun, and not spend resources creating more main shop sets of items. We're at tens of thousands of wearables on the site, and believe that avatar creators could sustain themselves purely on what is in the wardrobe now for years without us needing to release more standard sets of items in regular avenues. Special wearables from events and new features will fill in missing gaps, and CW creators (with reduced prices of getting items on the site and easier tools for selling) can fill in gaps they believe are missing.
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Honestly, because this isn't rule by committee. We're at a really important point in Subeta history where we just have to start moving quickly. We believe that there are things that need to change about the system, and have assumptions. We've watched feedback from the whole community, and built those assumptions around that feedback. Now we move to a phase where we need to check those proposals and assumptions and start moving on implementation. The number of stakeholders and size of feedback groups needs to shrink considerably to not be moving on this for the next ten years. At the end of the day, we decide the rules that create the CW market, and if people in the community are unhappy with those rules they can take their considerable talents elsewhere. We're making proposals for the health of the entire site, and are putting together a diverse group of people who can help us make it happen.
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What we're asking this group to do is engage in conversation with us over the three goals, the proposals that we've come up with so far, and what next steps should be. At the end of the day I'll still be the one deciding on the rule changes (with input from the council) and anything else that comes out of the group.
In the message I'm sending when asking if someone would like to participate it is clear that this is not a paying position and participation is entirely at will, however there are perks involved including on site currency. It'll be unfortunate to lose some voices to the conversation if they can't participate, but I totally understand the priority!
TLDR: I'm really excited to make Subeta better. I want to drive users to come online every day because there is something to check out or do, and getting the creative department focused entirely on that is part of it. Also, we just have a ton of things that have "been that way" for 500 years, and now is the time to shake things up. The energy is really positive, and I'm bringing that energy into this council, to speak for improvements the CW market has been asking for for a long time and advocate for change. This is a small step in a big direction!
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Thank you for taking the time to answer each point specifically. I am still a little concerned, but that concern is more of a 'wait and see / play it by ear' concern, rather than a 'what the actual heck is happening' concern like it was. So for that, I do really appreciate you taking the time to respond.
I will take my leave now to wait patiently to see what comes of this. Hopefully the worries and concerns I feel iron themselves out as it develops. ❤️
I hope to be able to do this at some point.
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These changes make me even more tempted to start making my own CWs, though I spend a lot of time drawing fanart on other social media as it is. That said, I have several ideas in mind for possible CWs that I'd love to make. The hard part would be emulating Subeta's art style, since I'm lacking in shading and rendering skills. Sure, I can draw it, but can I render it?
Haha, sorry, it was a bit of a long read! But I felt you deserved some in-depth feedback after doing so much yourself. I 100% understand what you mean about wanting to give the staff and artists in particular some breathing room to work on other projects, because it's obvious that even though you and everyone else have been working really hard the last few years, maintaining the grind of constant holidays and so on has prevented you from doing much else. I think a lot of users understand that, even with the grumbling about the teahouse, etc. From my perspective it feels like all the background work you've been doing the last 6 months+ is finally coming to fruition and creating this awesome snowball effect! So I'm really excited to see the next creative direction for the site.
While I don't yet see how CWs could take the lead on wearables overall, I trust that you've got some plans in mind and we'll see more in the near future.
I don't question the sacrifices you've made to help keep the site going - without it, maybe we wouldn't be having this discussion at all! It was very selfless of you to be able to contribute your time and resources like that. I'm grateful that your passion has kept you going in the absence of payment. Many users have offered to volunteer their services in various ways over the years, and many more (myself included) have spent countless hours contributing however we could to the community. I'm sure many of us will continue to do so, completely unpaid, because we care about the site as well and it's part of the fun of being here. I only wanted to point out that I was concerned about a small group of users being asked to basically take the place of a paid staff position(s), if indeed that's what the Cash Shop Wearable Council would be asked to do. Since you haven't elaborated yet on the exact duties of the council, I apologize if I was totally off the mark!
I hope my previous post didn't sound too doom-and-gloom. I know I was critical, but I don't intend my criticism to be biting in any way, merely trying to raise logical objections. Text is so difficult for tone! Needs more emojis!!!! 👽
Oh no! That’s my fault. I thought they were going to cap it. I misunderstood the news article. Thanks for clearing that up
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I just really want to say I'm impressed, and in some regard thankful, for your few posts speaking about changing things and growth.
It's comforting to know you're supportive of changing the site to better suit the current trends vs. sticking to past ways and the overall concept of going down with the ship (as most sites/concepts do). It's very easy to pack bags and take business elsewhere, but here's to hoping changes that mean I don't actually have to and a future where plots and events happen again.
On actual topic (though your post was here so aye) depending on everything else, I hope the CW changes are more enticing to everyone. CWs make some of the best niche TC items.
No apologies needed, I'm trying to figure out my own tone on these style of posts. I want to be all ✨ emojis :sparkling-heart: all the time, because that's generally how I operate in life, but I also have to radiate the energy of the person who owns & operates the site and makes decisions at the end of the day that effect the people I employ and their families, the thousands of users who play the site today, and the hundreds of thousands who've played before and have memories 😰. So, I'm sorry if my tone comes off mechanical by also chaotic, it's not on purpose!
The duties of the council will be in having conversations, giving feedback, and helping come to decisions on the goals outlined in the first post. The amount of involvement is entirely up to the individuals, and there aren't any recurring tasks ("go through 10 items in the queue, rewrite 5 rules") but more threads of conversation on particular changes, and coming together on what that change will be. Advise vs implement, I guess is a way to look at it.
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I was talking with some users recently about how Subeta could do more or least what is proposed here: be a creative space where people could upload their items/pets/'species' etc. Into a system to create characters, worlds etc. Basically be a creative hub with plots and some 'official' content, but with a lot of emphasis on custom content upload.
If you look at the 'recently added' section of the wardrobe, CW make up 80% of all new wearables already. We get official items through events, plots and CS features. With least strict rules and cheaper prices, I can only see more people submitting more CWs overall. This doesn't feel like that big of a change from what has been going on for years really.
The backlash over this seems odd to me. I've seen countless posts on the CW and the CW creators forums with people saying they would love to donate their time to Subeta to help the CW community. This is your chance! We as a community need to give to the site (in time, in momentary support etc.) If we want to see it move forward. I would personally love the opportunity to give my time to help a site that has been part of my life for 14 years.
We also cannot keep having 100+ posts discussions on everything, especially when there is a change proposed. It's not productive. A council of people who are aware of the issues of a specific part of a community is a great way to steamline the decision process.
I'm hoping we can see this sort of council in other areas of the site such as battling and pets. Possibly even having some 'elected' office in the future? This is very exciting overall.
Well, whatever happens, I'm looking forward to the possibility of there being more site content in other places other than wearables, especially if it means giving certain features much-needed updates (like the Subetapedia), or finally having the Tea House done (and the garden revamp and Lower West Side map that are being delayed because the staff don't want to ignore the votes and release those first anyway), and especially if it means having more than one news post throughout the day, cause at the moment it seems as if the site is moving slowly (and not because of lag) since we usually only get one or two news posts every day (not counting the Pet Spoghtlight), and sometimes we don't even get that. And not every new item HAS to be a wearable, I mean, it's nice if they are, but at the same time, it kind of makes the older items that have no use look boring and also makes people forget that said "useless" items were mainly intended for galleries or pet treasures.
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Keith -- I'm concerned for you because while it's perfectly legal for the owner (you, I assume) to work for no pay as long as they want to, it's not legal for them to solicit volunteers out of customers to work for less than legal wages.
https://icv2.com/articles/columns/view/36432/con-volunteer-headaches-are-coming-home-roost talks about issues with this in commercial conventions where they attempted a work-around with a nonprofit (which is allowed to use volunteer labor).
You're probably familiar with the issues around this relating to online games, because they started with the volunteer GMs in online games like Ultima Online. But they definitely spread plenty far after that.
So - it might be possible for you to reorg Subeta as a nonprofit, since you aren't expecting to make money off it? But otherwise, it's not legally safe for you to accept volunteers - and especially if you intend to reimburse with substitute benefits like on-site currency. That makes it more suspicious legally.
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Just read the statement above that it will be mostly conversations/consulting. That's usually fine, as long as there's no regular ongoing assignments or labor, so I'm less worried now. Thanks 💙 (I'd still recommend against giving any perks for being on the council, though.)
Honestly all these changes and new plans give me a lot of hope for the future of subeta. A lot of us would love to donate our time to make CWs a more inviting environment for everyone and I’m sure whoever you pick for the council will do amazing.
Thank you for giving us the opportunity to apply and be apart of this council. It sounds like this could really reignite the CW world on subeta.
I only with there were higher subscription tiers we could subscribe to! But maybe that’ll happen in the future.
Thanks for all the clarification! I agree with not creating items for the main sites (at least not in abundance) and focusing mostly on events etc. I am sure some will still get pushed here and there. All the feedback has been great!
Also, your tone in replies has been fine - as expected on official staff messages!