Ah yeah, I don't think they'll drop them all that low to be honest (but who knows haha). I also don't think they'll ever give us all the profits on it, the incentive to us continuing to do it all is that the site makes money on folks buying csc to buy cws and cs items, so I don't think they'll stick all the profit onto the releasers that way. But I'm definitely interested in seeing how it shakes out.

There's so many back and forth bits on here but Keith did say they plan to continue to release sP wearables too, but primarily as special shops/events/plots/collections/etc and less often to the regular shops since there are so many sP wears now onsite too.

I was just thinking that low because of Keith's comment on the first page about making them essentially dirt cheap lol XD and if they make them that cheap I want to make my same profit and of course I'd be grateful for a cheaper price XD And I think they'd make more money with giving us all of our profit myself...because if I can afford to push MORE items on site...and so can everyone else....that creates a whole lot of choices and incentives for users to buy more CSC because hey look at all the pretties? XD lol ;) But it will definitely be interesting to see what happens...I hope they decide soon as I have some stuff I want to get on site....but I want to wait till they decide lol XD

I just want to say that I would love to see an end to slotting. I love CWs and all, but over the years, I have hardly participated in the market, because scouring through forums, posting to reserve slots and navigating the cliquey, closed world of CWs has felt pretty bothersome. I just purchased one a couple of months back for the first time in years. When you introduced CW shops, I was so excited for the buying process to become easier but instead sellers stuck with what they knew and what enabled them to control who got what.

I am saddened that there might be fewer Subeta staff wearable releases. Those releases form cohesive sets that are easy to work with

wow thanks for keeping all of us all updated on all the new stuff

Whoa I'm late to responding to this, but I got the idea from 's post that he was interested in a wide variety of voices, not just popular releasers. I hope a goodly number of people apply, not just the big names in the community. The needs of releasers are different from the needs of artists, and the needs of buyers are different from both. So I do hope that people from all spheres are chosen for good, well-rounded input.

I really hope that forum slotting or forum participation of some kind won't totally go away, because it's one of the few social ways to connect with users who are interested in the cw community, but I recognize how overwhelming the different shops and the slotting process can be. I don't even particularly LIKE running a slotting thread, as a CW releaser, but just putting stuff in my CW shop feels impersonal and lessens my motivation to create new CWs at all. Maybe it's because I'm the one drawing the art, but the thought of just pumping out new wearables for consumption without knowing who enjoys the art, or seeing any kind of feedback or excitement for it, sounds sad to me.

I hope that there will be some good ideas for promoting CW shops/incentivizing using them for people who don't want to engage with slotting threads, but yeah, like I said, I hope threads don't go away entirely.

Thanks for condensing that for me! I'm VERY much a fan of the wearables being more like SBQ, special events, the holidays, etc and not just in general. Those are always my faves and you are right...there's tons of stuff on the site in the other shops that probably doesn't need to be increased.

Curious and excited to see how these things play out. I'm a big CW fan, but man, gotta get me a job so I can enjoy. :)

Yeah, I saw his post about it too, but I don't know how many folks will actually apply. My comment was more towards the people they asked behind the scenes, because he said they had a selection already made of people they were asking for help and then anyone else who felt like they had good input could apply and explain why they should be let in. That just...reinforces the ideas people keep having about the community unfortunately. Hopefully they did pick a good selection of people from across the board to help but who knows, since it's all gone quiet after basically the first day shrug

No problem! I mean, I love seeing new wearables all over, but Keith was the one who said that there were plenty of wears already in the regular shops so that's where they'd put less effort to make the art time more effective for the site as a whole :)

Yes, I completely get what you mean. I hope there will be a good variety, but I am also concerned about potential backlash from various users, especially those that have been vocally against the CW community in the past, about catering to the CW "elite" yadda yadda. I want to bring the site community together, not bolster bitterness about hidden agendas, etc. But I can understand why staff prefers to have a smaller group for targeted discussions and so on, too. /shruggggg

Yeah, I totally get the need for a smaller focus group to get things to a point where they're presentable for decision making, I just really wish the process behind choosing who and how was more transparent. We (the community) are going to get blamed for any changes that people don't like and for being elite when it's really not up to the vast majority of us, if history has taught me anything. It's very...frustrating. But there's literally nothing we can do about it - even when we've all clearly helped argue for more transparency about stuff and including the site as a whole in change discussions so...eh

((also I love your HA))

Yeah, I get'cha. I don't know if there are any specific criteria for who gets to contribute to the council, but I'm sure staff has their eyes and ears open to the users who've been active in various ways.

((Thank you! :) ))

I think it would be better if slotting does not go away, and here's why.

Shops should be for public items. Slotting should be for private items.

It's valid and legitimate for a few items to be private--for instance, if someone commissions a wearable based on their own, personal, dog or cat, they shouldn't be forced to sell it to all comers.

At the same time, shops full of items that most people are not allowed to buy aren't great either.

(reposting my comment here from another thread because it's more relevant to this thread)

Now that the council is a thing, I wish there were some way to submit ideas to it rather than relying on a small handful of users to come up with all the ideas. I still feel like if a council system is going to be used, it should be to review and discuss specific questions posed to it rather than as the sole point of idea generation if that makes sense.

Something like 's old CW idea suggestion box would be ideal, so that users not on the council still feel like they can contribute and have some say. (The suggestion box thread was in the CW Discussion subforum, accessible to all, and included a google form that users could use to submit ideas related to CWs to Jessi, a former staff person in charge of all things CWs at the time. The thread appears to be deleted now.)

I was never in the custom wears "community" as a whole, I was basically shut out and never let in. I learned very quickly how two-faced people are over pixels and I quickly learned that if I want something to remain the way I intended it, I have to do it myself or someone just bastardizes it. I've had people block me over owning specific CWs and I know this post will basically be it for me getting anything approved ever again because I said that.

The thought of a council makes me shudder. It sounds like a fantastic way of weeding out the less favored from the CW "community," again with the quotes, under the guise of someone didn't meet specific criteria.

Sounds like a great way to bully too.

I hope I've personally never contributed to making you feel like that. And if I have, please let me know, because holy shit. =/

The community still has pockets of toxicity like that, and that's part of my original fear for this council being made as well. At this point it's a "hope" that things turn out for the better and people put their petty crap aside for the betterment of the community itself but... we'll see.

Regardless, a small handful of people don't equal the entire community. I can fully understand that a few sour grapes CAN ruin everything, so if you feel safer staying away that's totally understandable and I can respect that, but if you'd like to join there ARE people who will welcome you, no matter your level of involvement, myself being one of them. (I have people who don't ever buy anything but still let me know they like something and that's pretty awesome too IMHO).

PS. I've name changed, but I'm the artist who drew your Yusuf wig!

Ouch!

I've heard about the toxicity of the CW community, even though I'm not in it. I can't imagine someone blocking me just because I won't give them a CW.

" I quickly learned that if I want something to remain the way I intended it, I have to do it myself or someone just bastardizes it."

This statement is confusing. Did you commission CW artwork and the artist totally went against the vision you had for the CW?

I've stayed away from CWs for a couple of reasons. -Hearing about toxicity like DeimosAlexein mentioned. -the prices for submitting CWs

Both of these need to be changed for the CWs market to continue flourishing. I hope Keith and the staff are taking care when selecting the council. Having a "toxic" CW person on the council could result in a debacle worse than this year's wardrobe glitch.

I KNOW the CW community was upset about that, so if the council thing goes sour it could be a nail in the coffin for CWs as a whole.

It is unfortunately one of those things where there is no way to get rid of all the people who are causing the issue. Every single community here on Subeta, or on any forum I've ever been to, has this problem. It's not exclusive to us, but because of the second part (it being expensive) people are less willing to look past those people and give it a chance.

The majority of those people have moved on. And yes, there are still some bad eggs among us, and I'm not going to pretend that everyone is rainbows and butterflies all the time (I know I'm sure not) but it's one of those things where people have to decide their level of comfort and if it's worth it to them to dip their toe in.

I'd love to be like 'everyone is welcome!' but as someone with crippling anxiety and depression, I know that a window doesn't always make a door, and that's exactly the problem here.

For now all we (the people in the community who aren't part of the toxicity problem) can do is just try to pray we're in good hands, and that things will get better. I know I sure hope it does, blinding pessimism and all. =/

I actually wanted to submit CWs (I had some tribute item ideas), but I changed my mind after I saw the prices.

2000 CSC to submit this chest item AND there's a chance it could be denied? Nuh-uh, I'm out.

I've heard that Subeta's art community isn't very strong nowadays, and I wonder if these CW submission prices are one of the reasons that is the case.

It's a very confusing system, which doesn't help BUT you get 5 copies for the 2k csc (making them cost 400 csc each, not 2k each) and if your item is denied, you are fully refunded. (Most people slot for their item. So if you're the artist, you'd ask 4 other people to help you at 500 csc each, and it would cover the cost so you pay zero.)

I'm seeing a surge in the art community right now (the non-CW art community) due to the non-unique pet name update, so that's actually pretty good :)

I realize that I might have misunderstood something about all of this, but I'm pretty sure that I haven't. From what I've gathered from Keith's posts on this thread all the council will be doing is discussing changes to the cw system. Changes that, as far as I have understood it, Keith already have a list of that he'd like to get opinions on. Sure, more suggestions might pop up during those discussions but that's beside the point that I'm trying to make here. What I'm actually getting at is that no matter who is in the council once it's fully formed won't really matter that much. I too was concerned at first about the fact that several of the people chosen so far are friends, so I don't blame others for being concerned as well. But then I quickly realized that it doesn't change anything. The council members aren't gonna have any sway over who gets to stay in the cw market. They won't be able to bully anyone out of the market by being on this council. They are not gonna run the queue, as some people seem to fear. That will always be in the hands of a staff member, never a normal user. All that they are going to discuss is: how the rules are gonna be consolidated and updated, changes to the submission system and how to potentially make the dts system more attractive (Keith did state that this is something he wants) and potentially the pricing changes. The way that I've seen some people basically panic over this council, and who's on it, really baffles me considering that the things that they are going to discuss is about how to make the cw system work better, and be more inclusive and inviting for new releasers. That is something that all of the current members of the council want too. If they were to try and sabotage the system, for specific people that they don't like, all that they would potentially be doing is make the system worse which would be like shooting themselves in the foot. And in the end Keith is the one that will make the ultimate call on what changes actually happen. And I, at least, have confidence that he will see what changes could potentially hamper the system, instead of helping it.

I think you're right, some people are misunderstanding the purpose of the CW Council, but you have clarified it well. :) As far as I can tell, the cw council has no power to determine who can or can't submit CWs, sell them, draw them, etc. No one will be "shut out" of the community as a whole, they are just helping staff discuss and make decisions about upcoming changes to CW policies like cost of submission and so on. I'm not on the council but I do genuinely believe that the people on it want to improve the cw situation on site for everyone.

However, I do still have concerns about upcoming changes to the queue/submission system, just based on this comment of 's that we haven't had any clarification on:

I voiced my concern with the idea of users providing feedback/being part of the approval process a while ago, but it wasn't addressed with any of 's responses as far as I could see. It's possible that his initial statement was just meant to be one idea that the council would be discussing and brainstorming on, not a set-in-stone definitely gonna happen sort of proposal, though. (And regardless, from some of his other statements, I don't think the CW council will be responsible for anything like vetting the CW queue. They are just a discussion group, from what I can tell.)

Anyway, thanks for trying to comfort any users who are worried about the cw council excluding them from being part of the cw community!