I feel like this is the general attitude too. Actually I think the entries people are complaining about and the entries that were just low skill will end up being two different groups. It's hard to point them out because of the targeting rules though. Also because we can't see them anymore. Also I've already forgotten a lot of them.

The issues with these things won't ever be because the person can't draw well. Unless it's a art contest and not a concept contest of course. It will be about how much effort and thought you seem to put into your work. You guys shouldn't feel like you can't enter because you can't draw. That was never a point I was trying to make. Hell I can't draw either. I've been drawing my entire fucking life and never got good at it because I never wanted to put in the effort needed. I spent most of my time watching cartoons and playing Sims and Kingdom Hearts. And then tried to draw art of my sims and KH characters and threw them away because they were terrible and almost died of shame when a classmate saw them one time. That's why I built something. Chances are if you're upset about the complaints then your drawing isn't the one being complained about.

Obviously the staff can't axe entries that look low effort because we can never know why that person's work looks the way it does. Which is why I agreed that it was better left to the users during the voting. I just personally found it a little disappointing. There were 199 entries and only five of them will win. The other 194 will just get the participation prize. It's bothersome to know that someone who didn't give a damn and just wanted the prize will receive same the amount of compensation as someone who might have worked on theirs for weeks but lost because people didn't like their concept. Even more so when the damn thing will be in the Millionaire Center and could have just been bought anyway. I feel like it's cheating the system and it's frustrating to know that there isn't really anything that can be done about it.

How exactly is it cheating the system though? If people participate they get the prize, period. That's how participation prizes work.

And no matter what there will be losers. No matter what some people with great concepts who put a lot of time/effort into their entries will lose. Even if all the "low quality" entries were removed many entrants left still wouldn't win. That's just the nature of contests. Most people who enter contests of any kind will get nothing unless there's participation prizes. If people don't like the possibility of wasting their time and losing or competing against people who just want the participation prize they should put less time into their entry or not enter at all.

Yeah that's how participation prizes work. Did I ever state anywhere that it worked differently? It FEELS like it's cheating because they're taking advantage and not putting the effort in.

It's disheartening to see these things that are supposed to be fun activities taken advantage of by people who don't give a shit. It's disheartening to see the staff create things to do to bring the community together and see it fucked by people who don't care. It saps the fun out of contests and ruins competitions to the point where people suggest not having them at all.

Hi everyone, I've done a quick read-through of what has been said, and here's my input -

-Voting counter - A counter (or status bar) would be amazing. All for it. -Rules - Vetting should only be used for copyright concerns, inappropriate entries, or not following the rules, if said rules are very clearly stated on the contest entry page. I wasn't aware of all the rules really, as I didn't read through all the news comments. -Perceived Effort - I also agree vetting based on perceived effort level is not in the spirit of the contest. Let anyone enter and submit whatever they thought would make a good contest entry. It's a participation prize anyhow. For voting itself, a second round or some way to distinguish how much you loved an entry would be great - awarding 0-5 points per entry could work! I would be alright with a different prize for those in, say, the top 10 or 15. Though making tiered prizes all the way down doesn't seem in the right spirit. I didn't take this contest as an all-or-nothing or hyper-competitive sort of event - it was just design a home for a loved goat! -Targetting of Entries - This makes me sad. I don't think we should ever be calling out specific entries or targeting users based on their entries. I personally entered this contest with a canister type entry. It wasn't amazingly drawn or anything of the sort, but I like the idea of a quirky home for Oatmeal. Subeta doesn't have to be in the real world. Point being, let others enjoy the contest, and vote for the ones you wish while not putting others down for their ideas. -Consistency of votes - I would have loved to see which entries I had voted down and voted up, in order to be consistent. I was much kinder at the beginning, but I got tougher as I saw repeated ideas, as I'm sure most others did. As suggested, I skipped most of them after the first 30-40 entries, in order to know kinda how to vote. I wish I could go back and be less tough or more tough based on all the entries. I fear that many people either only up-voted 4-5 people, and others up-voted anyone who put effort. While that does yield the top entries, I kinda like the idea of having a bit more consistency in how people are voting. I wouldn't mind people having a max of, for example, 200 points (if we impose a 0-5 system) or the ability to only up-vote for 30 entries. Though, as is, it does not seem that problematic. -Voting Options - I liked the "skip" button and the saved entries! For the down-vote, I understood that it wasn't really a "down"-vote, thanks to the news post, but a quick change of words could remedy any confusion. Cast/Pass/Skip? Cast/Don't/Skip? (+)/Neutral/(Skip)? Oh! Also, for the saved entries, it would be nice if you click on one, it starts all your saved entries, rather than having you go back and forth. (I saved around 20-ish, so it was a little bit of an inconvenience)

Overall, I really enjoyed this contest and I think it was a cute idea. Oatmeal will be one spoiled goat with whichever new home he receives!

What's wrong with making an entry just for the participation prize? There are different levels of effort for wanting the same thing... I worked some hours on mine, put thought and effort into the design, used the max character limit in the description to help explain my design, but I still did it for the participation prize. Because when I started on it I thought "there's no way I'm going to win so I'll try to get the participation prize."

And If I somehow win, that would be an awesome bonus, but for now I really am just doing it for the participation prize. :P And I don't feel bothered that someone who put in a lot less effort than I did will get the same prize.

I tend to enter subeta contests if 1. I'm actually able to (couldn't carve a pumpkin so I didn't enter that one). 2. if there is a participation prize. I usually do enter just to get the participation prize. That doesn't mean I don't take my entry seriously, despite the lack of confidence in my abilities and knowing that I probably won't win. I can't imagine that I'm the only one doing this. Anyway I guess the point of this ramble was to say that not everyone "just doing it for the participation prize" is making 0 effort throwaway entries.

Thats not really the thing thats was bothering me though. It doesnt matter what your motivation was. If you knew you wouldnt win but still put something together that you put thought into, even if it was silly, that was great. The point was to have fun coming up with an Oatmeal house. Effort was whats important.

It's also possible that some entries are not about the participation prize at all. Sure, some probably entered for the participation prize, but I know I entered because I feel very strongly about how I'd like Oatmeal's abode to look, strongly enough that I submitted an entry in the hopes people would get the idea and like the concept even though my art certainly isn't good enough to win. A participation prize is a nice bonus, but I (and probably many users) are not under the impression that we're going to win anything unless lightning strikes.

Participation prizes are supposed to be a "thanks for participating", not "we acknowledge that this is good art". The focus and emotion in this thread on participation prizes and who deserves them and who does not (not to mention what constitutes "enough effort") kind of overlooks the other reasons people may have entered. Besides, what does it matter if everyone gets a participation prize? Aside from the obvious non-rule-following entries, is it really that world-ending if everyone gets a participation prize? It's not saying "this Paint art is better than this oil painting". It's an acknowledgment of entry. That's all.

I thought of suggesting "maybe don't have participation prizes", wherein the only prize is the winner gets to have their idea made into Oatmeal's new home. But I think the userbase probably would disagree with no prizes and we'd be right back where we started.

I think the best solution is to tighten/refine/specify submission standards so that they're more clear.

I wasn't solely referring to your post; throughout this thread I've seen people talking down entries that were just for the participation prize, like you either made an effort OR you just did it for the participation prize. As someone who entered for the participation prize AND made an effort, I just wanted to remind that those two concepts are not polar opposites, but overlap, rather. :) I'm not upset or anything I just wanted to get it out there.

Some people enter for fun, because they care about Oatmeal, because they want to win the top prize, because they want the participation prize, any combination of those reasons, or none of those reasons. Motive and effort are not the same thing, and especially when this is (supposed to be) anonymous, there's no way to prove who made an effort and who didn't because not everyone is the same level when it comes to art. I think we're on the same page about that?

Yeah I think we are. :)

I don't know why people keep pretending that the issue is artistic ability when everyone is saying it's not. I voted up on entries that had "bad" art, but showed a lot of thought and creativity.

There's a big difference between "here's a brown square gimme the book" and "I can't draw well, but here's what I had in mind"

The fact that there are entries from other games, screenshots, pictures from google, stock images, etc etc that are clearly against the rules and spirit of the contest is ridiculous. It would take how long for a staff member to go through and remove those? Cmon

This comment is not really helpful at all, but I must say that many of you really know how to take the fun out of a contest. This was all about designing a home for little Oatmeal. People overanalyzing how long it might have taken to draw something, or complaining about prizes, or just plain whining, is childish. If I were the staff, I would probably say "screw all of you, no more contests".

and that's why you're not staff lol

Also, there is a problem with people submitting pictures of statues they don't own and pretending it's for Oatmeal. I've seen several statues of houses that are obviously things they've bought from a store or already had around the house, set down in the grass, took a picture and called it theirs. This is literally stealing art. They did not make that sculpture/statue for this contest.

Heck, if I knew art was that easy, I would have taken a photo of this castle statue I have in my room, bought a set of farm animal toys from the dollar store, took a picture and called it a day.

although I agree with that I have to say some might be crafty enough to make an item they made themselves look like it was store bought, last year the winners of the ornament contest all looked like things you'd find in store rather then fan made.

Again it comes to vetting, if the item is suspected to be store bought the user could provide proof of his effort to contest it (pre-final pictures, working station left over items, list of material used....etc) pre-voting stage.

There was one entry that was obviously a Disney product. It had Owl from Winnie the Pooh stuck to the house.

those should have been disqualified pre-voting stage. again we come back to vetting for things that infringe on copy-write laws or site rules.... though I don't remember that specific one I do remember others that fall under the same umbrella.

Yeah, it really should have been. I have no idea why that and all the Quaker Oats ones got through. Those are clearly copyright infringement as well. I mean, if they wanted Oatmeal in an Oatmeal box, they could have at least wrapped some sort of paper around their Oatmeal container and drawn their own logos. This thing was just disappointing all around.

there was one where the quakers man was swapped for wesley, that one had the right idea, the rest although funny still fall under copy-write infringement due to use of stock images and should not have been in the voting to begin with (same with the screen capture of animal crossing!)

I would suggest having a second voting round so we can vote for the ones we really like and not just the ones that actually qualify =/