I adore this board. Seriously, I have so many eyes but only use a few, and I usually have to layer.

Even the eyes I'm using are weird. The black outline on the eyebrows ruins them:

There are some eyes I do love: Although the Viv Blustery Liquid Liner could use a couple of nudges on the avatar's right eye.

Just a side note: the mouth on your eye guides is TERRIFYING.

Omg, I know a person wouldn't lie about something so silly, but... omg. I hardly believe you. I don't understand how that can be true.

Agree so much with your edits, if the eyes got fixed to fit that form it would be amazing. A lot of eyes just are impossible to use or you have to cover one up so it doesn't look like you got slapped in the face so hard your features were rearranged.

I love most of the edits! Only thing is some of the eyebrows are unequal height to have an expression which I really like and

My favorite pair of eyes on the site is 'crooked'. The thing is, it's crooked because the artist clearly wanted that snarky raised eyebrow effect. Plus, the eyebrows aren't pencil-thin and they aren't huge caterpillar brows, and the eyes are a nice neutral shape without crazy lashes.

The problem with some of your examples ISN'T that the eyebrows are crooked, it's that we have literally dozens of pairs of damn near identical eyes in damn near identical expressions. (How many eyes have come out in the past two years that are basically the North Star Make-up Sponge recolored? At least two clones have been posted in the thread already.) One or two sets with raised brows is great, just like having a few crooked mouths is great. Sometimes people want that single-raised-brow look, or a frowny pouty mouth, or a crazy grin. What isn't great is having such a huge portion of the new face items be the same recycled sets over and over, while other styles of eyes that are constantly asked for (simple ones like the Donna lashes and Argo liner with actual eyebrows attached) get ignored in favor of more zany crooked heavily made-up ones.

One thing you didn't point out in the OP is that a lot of the eyes are way WAY too close together. The Molecular Gastronomy Eyes are damn near unusable. The inner lashes should not be nearly touching. I bought that set because I liked the interesting shape, but once I got them in my wardrobe I realized they'd never work because they're practically merging into a cyclops eye. :( Several of the Delish eyes have this problem, too. Slightly crooked eyes can be worked around, but too close together or drifting in wildly different directions really can't.

I agree with most of the things said here, cept for the eye brows on some eyes. Like the post above me :)

I didn't mean to imply that no expression is better or that all eyebrows need to be exactly one way, in fact I noted point blank expression is wonderful but not for every pair of eyes. ... Which people seem to be ignoring. I actually use eyes with one raised eyebrow a fair amount. An issue, though, is that these eyes and the Bootlegger eyes are crooked. Not the eyebrows, the eyes. Which made the eyebrows crooked as well. When you raise an eyebrow your entire eye does not go up an inch. They are not attached. The eyelid will raise up a bit, giving your eye a more open appearance, but it won't actually move the eye up. THAT is the issue with the eyes/eyebrows for some of the eyes. This also creates an issue with layering. When the eyes are crooked and you want to simply use the eyebrows, it becomes much harder to find eyebrowless eyes without crazy makeup that will cover the underlying eyes. I couldn't do that with the Bootlegger eyes and ended up selling them.

And, hilariously enough, the same artist that drew the coveted Donna and Argo liners is the same artist that drew the Bootlegger eyes, the Professor New eyes that I edited, and all of the recolors of these: It's been pointed out that people are eh on these eyes and would love more like the Donna Fake Lashes and Argo Blackout Liquid Liner (which are pretty much recolors of one another).

a+ thread. I think there was a thread about all the crooked and wrong-located mouths a few months ago, and this one is just as good. With every new collection released, I wonder how staff (who are producing amazing clothes) can let those eyes and mouths go through. It's a mystery to me. Thank you for your edits, they are amazing!

I would love to see certain eyes done differently. I do agree that some eyebrows do lend towards facial expression but I feel really strongly that they should be separate from the actual eyeball. There are some really pretty eyes that I don't use because of the wonky brows. An item I want to use but don't- 90% of the time I pass it up because I don't want my ha looking surprised or like they just heard a sarcastic comment. The color and eye shape are great but the brows ruin it for me. I wish that if they were going to do 'expressive' eyebrows they would release the eyebrows without eyeballs and release the eyeballs separate to be used with our choice of (already existing) brows.

I love the haunted crystal eyes, but I wish they weren't so crooked.

I have nothing extra to add, except that I fully agree with everything said here. You have my support! :) Lots of eyes I love the idea of them, but because of the placement or size difference, are essentially impossible to use. I always think the artists are trying to implement the concept of perspective, but that's not necessary for eyes so close to each other to have such a big difference in size/placement.

I think instead of revamping SubQ sets, art staff starts revamping the super awful eye and mouth items. Once all of those are useable, they can go back to SubQ.

i'm glad this thread exists not only because it addresses something i've silently mused about forever but also because you have a wonderfully humorous way of presenting such an issue. billy the goofy-looking shit is my favorite.

personally i'd love it if the eye sets that didn't sit so high could be fixed to sit normally. that's it. i really have no other gripes about eyes than that since that's the thing i notice the most when trying to make an HA and then the whole thing gets buggered all because of the eyes. mouths as well, but eyes more so because i can do with a default mouth if i have to. if a particular pair of eyes only look good or decent at best with the HA that models the entire set, then that is definitely not a win, especially for a single item that ends up being worth multiple millions (or a lot of CSC).

thanks for this point of discussion you've opened here, hopefully it gets the recognition it deserves.

Me too, this thread made me go through all my stuff and have a proper look,Ive got some real humdingers which I sold [hopefully!] I read the lips thread too, and went through them, [item=Giselle D.E.V.I.L.L.E Lipstick] this represents what Cruella looks like in the film,but it doesnt work with most other items.I like big lips dont get me wrong.

I remember seeing the argument of the placement of lips how they line up with the eyes of a certain set, or the new noses- but I find that rather silly considering that people don't want to be forced to wear a nose in order to wear a certain pair of lips just so it doesn't look squished.

I think the same goes for the eyes for sure. There are several eyes I have that I never use because they're so crooked- or I don't buy something because the eyes are just awful and I'm thinking "Who did this anyways?" I actually wish there were more eyebrow-less eyes and more eyebrow options, esp for expressions, that'd be kinda nice, but alas.

Nice thread tho, made me giggle. I do agree tho- it would be nice if they were more consistent. I mean, naturally real life people have eyes in different areas of the face- but when most eyes are in similar places, then suddenly like 3 eyes are higher than the rest, seems rather stupid to me.

I doubt staff will take the time to nudge any eyes or shrink anything down... I think that'd be an issue they don't particularly find very necessary to spend time on... unfortunately.

Yeah, this is by no means how I would draw a person. As you said, people's eyes are simply not lined up this way. But everything about someones face makes up how it is constructed and putting that on such stationary misaligned face such as these avatars simply doesn't work. I don't think the artists really got told this, AHAHAHA I love that we have so many different styles, shapes, sizes, etc, of eyes but if one isn't really lined up it makes it look like it's flying/falling away instead of "ah yes, this is how a face looks." So someone needs to sit down behind the scenes and go "while different is good, they should still line up somewhere like this, not the same size/shape, but line up close to this" and draw up a diagram. Because, as you said too, I don't want to have to always wear Eyes A + Mouth A, and have Eyes B + Mouth C make my HA look like it's gone to a bad plastic surgeon.

Gosh I wish more items were separated. Some items have such wonderfully expressive eyebrows but I can't work with the eyes/makeup, or they don't layer well.

Oh for sure. It only makes sense to have them aligned properly. Otherwise, it's just a pain in the patoo. I can't tell you how many lips I have that sit too freaking high and are so close to the nose I'm like "Okay, that looks stupid.." I agree it's fine to have some variety, but it's a lot less headache inducing if we have more items that line up properly and can work together.

All in all, I think any competent artist already knows that the subeta HA's are completely off- with the ear that is too far forward, the franken-feet and the no neck- since those are things we can't change and must work around, we should at least be given items that are following the same formula. I'm kinda tired of looking at new eyes released and my first thought is "I hope these don't suck" (and then consequentially being disappointed more often than not xD).

I guess we can wait around and see... but like I said, I doubt anything will change.

Tho, I must say, I think the worst offenders are . They line up with absolutely nothing. They're too low, too far apart and crooked. They can't be used for anything and just plain look almost derpy- such a stupid blank 'expression' like... they're dead eyes... bleh.

I dislike these the most, they just look dead.

i always thought it was just me who thought some eyes were unusable, go into the hair line on the right side, or felt a little crooked to me, etc. im really glad this is being brought up and a healthy debate of pros and cons are being discussed. i can see both points of needing the vanishing point eyes and others not wanting them. the biggest problem is that the vanishing point is so small on the avatar that it becomes very hard to realize the errors until you put them on the ha, or after publishing them. i personally like switching back and forth between both types.

Ugh, mouths, I need to find time to work on a longer comment on them. I am not the best with mouth angles, though, so I need to work on that. Sadly, when I change my HA to female, I always have to default to a small set of mouths. I don't like very small mouths and so many of them are set more at a forward angle that I just can't work with them. So it's the same few I use to layer with one another. But I will say, the recent four? SubQ eyes have all been well done.

Those Misery eyes… Holy balls, I don't remember them being that bad. But they are. They're just that bad.