.daniel

You would be better off making another thread in suggestions.

okay thanks

That wasn't the point of my comment. Kindly do not ever suggest that what I say would be summed up as a "conspiration against men." Just no. My comment had nothing to do with putting more items into the cash shop that were geared towards more male HA-makers. So it shouldn't matter if one thing sells more than others. The site puts out a shitton of items that, if they were in the cash shop, wouldn't sell much at all. And if the site were to be more focused on earning cash, they would be altering some things and prices that are already in the cash shop to help promote sales. Like the pricing of the Essence of Melody or those potions, that are either cheaper in shops or there are cheaper ways of getting them (but Keith has stated that they will remain those prices because they aren't there to "earn money"--- this isn't exact wordings, as I can't find his post on Tumblr regarding it, and it was a few years back when the Essence was first released). If the point is SALES SALES SALES, the site wouldn't produce a lot of the stuff it does. Oh, and the older male coupons were generally more commonly put out (so many people complaining about getting the exact same wig four+ times for every "female" wigs), making them become cheaper and cheaper (yes, a lot of them are less commonly used as well--- many are very stylized in ways that render them more 'style specific').

I don't believe any have been made recently, though. The problem has been that users that DID make the suggestions multiple times... Gave up. But I will be making a new board sometime in the near future.

.Daniel I'm in a short-hair-only kick myself. But I won't say no to an amazing long wig. I will force that shit on my male HA.

I am not going to argue that more HA's are female, or that there is a more female-centered user base. I was stating that argument is annoying and over used.

"Making items that the site clearly wants" ... Believe me, there are plenty of items made that users just tilt their heads at and move on. Or items that have a small niche. The cash shop is not really exempt from this.

A good portion of users, including dominant female-HA makers, have asked for (or expressed support for) certain male items/clothing items... That simply haven't been done. Like basic, different colored vests. Non-stylized ones without these funky cuts/etc, that aren't just black or in similar color schemes as older ones. So that people can actually use them. Again, suggestions like these have simply died over time because they were being ignored. A lot of male HA makers have left, or switched to female.

So about 2.5 times the number of female version over the male version.

That does not surprise me. Thanks so much for that information.

right, except if it's an actual valid reason, it's not an argument or an excuse, it's just something that you don't like hearing. /shrug

I shall =3 ... Though not at this moment. Running around !

Ah yes, because Subeta only does things that will 100% be oh so popular. Totally nothing that would only be catering to a smaller sub-group of users. Only ever drawing things that will be bought by the masses. Nothing that has been redone multiple times when it was already criticized previously. Nope. Never.

Just because female things sell more doesn't mean male things should be ignored.

Just because people want more wearables doesn't mean everything else should be ignored.

End of story.

By only having female desu items with 50 recolors forever will result in a anyone outside of the box being like "ew, subeta only caters to people who like making normal fashion chick dress-up dolls or people who have mega $$$$ to make their own stuff. Lame, moving on."

Subeta has been making strides to overcome ^ that, and I'm glad that staff have already flocked to this board and said "hey yeah make a board for all of this stuff and then ping me because we need more diversity". I feel like the site artists have definitely been trying, I've seen more gender-neutral clothes (or at least, clothes aimed at x or y) and things where the item is x and the wearable is y (the food themed wigs, come to mind)? I'm not saying leave the artists alone and that male stuff should be ignored-- just that they're making an effort these days and I hope that keeps up. I also hope some boards are made, especially whatever we're talking about with vests.

Everyone could always use some more dapper vests. As well as colorfultastic suit sets such as the ones one might see on a show like Hannibal ijs.

Attention! I have created a forum board under 'Suggestions' which everyone can find here if anyone would like to add any suggestions. I'll ping the moderator above so they know that it's here now :) And feel free to make another or to just add to this one if you have any ideas!!

exactly, that's what I was attempting to say by suggesting more male items in the first place. Just because female clothing is more popular doesn't mean male items should be ignored. But you're right, the artists have been taking steps to improve that and it is much appreciated so thank you artists, keep it up!! I understand the certain demand needed to make new items happen, so it's understandable that there aren't a bunch of male items out there, but it's true that they shouldn't be ignored so hopefully the thread will help give artists an idea of what the demand is! posted a wonderful idea on there to post suggestions that show both male/female versions if possible, because that should help the artists have better reference if any of the suggestions end up turning into future items.

If anyone has any ideas or wants to see the suggestions, head on over!

.Daniel This is where CWs are godsends. (I too am so over the excuse of "BUT SUBETA'S MORE OF A FEMALE USERBASE!")

[edit]Damn ping.

Aha I know, pinging me is a very hit or miss game it seems. I subscribed to the thread and any other threads I create for this same reason, since hardly anyone can ever get the ping to work it seems.

Yes there's so many CWs out there that I really like, but I don't have real money to spend on CSC to use on CWs. I'm an unemployed high school student who has no way to make money at this point, therefore I have no money to spend on CSC. So I'm pretty much stuck with basic items since it's basically impossible to find CWs up in user shops for sP. :/

.Daniel I wasn't aware of your situation nor did I mean any offense. Subeta seems very hit and miss with wears anymore, it's the same lame excuse of "There's not enough males on the site to justify" really, in some variant of the wording.

I, personally, am a female user who just makes male HAs for fun and because it's more comfortable to. I can imagine that if a guy were to come onto Subeta and be confronted with the masses of sparkly, pink items on here that he'd do an about face and leave.

I'm not asking for myriads of masculine, HE-MAN items either but some evening out of things would go a long way.

oh no no offense taken xD I was just saying that CWs are difficult to afford when you're just a high school student with no job. Hopefully when I get a job and move out after I graduate, that'll be less of a problem.

Yeah I'm a guy and I feel like there are just tons and tons of girly items and it can be so difficult to put an HA together sometimes simply because I find myself always using the same items. It's true, that is the only excuse I've seen from anyone on the site, users and moderators alike. Even Keith made the same excuse, aha. I can understand the need for slight demand but that's no excuse to ignore the issue completely. It's exactly like you said, just some evening out would make such a difference it's unreal. The ratio of female items to male items must be a huge one.

It definitely is frustrating for male avatar makers, but I feel like the site has been making strides with that. People already have mentioned hair coupons. There are also recent trunks (even though those are being phased out), cs boutique, monthly collections, holiday (lumi melody items and fireside come to mind!), subQ, which all have significant male components to them. For example, even with two of the three limited subQ released earlier this year (greasemonkey, both grimdark) having female wigs, one of the female subQ had neutral clothing (greasemonkey).

I also find some items more gender neutral than they let on like . I mean why not wear that if you want longer hair? I know guys irl that had longer hair than me. I feel like asking for more "male" items is a moot point because what does that even mean? More "masculine" items? We're living in a time where it's harder to define things (with ironically there being more ways to define things as a result).

But what I really want to ask you is.... why the assumption that is the only male wig out of the set? Why can't be a male wig as well? Do all guys need to have short, only slightly wavy hair?

.Daniel Oof, oh, good. XD You'll get there, I've been out of high school so long that I might have forgotten that everyone typically tends to be at least five years younger than I, lmao.

As pointed out above me and beneath your last post, why do all male hairstyles have to be short and slightly wavy? Why can't it be short and tightly curled? Or long and a little wavy? I've only seen... maybe three wigs on here that have obviously male long ponytails and I'm wearing one of the three.

Tbph, at this point, if Subeta's admins just admitted they don't want to do as much male HA stuff as female, it'd be a lot better than recycling a lazy excuse to not.

I understand that yes, guys can have longer and more curlyish hair, but my main point was yes, more masculine items. I'm perfectly fine with using longer wigs, but I feel like most of the longer ones are very feminine (mostly because they're probably made that way for a reason). I know the time we live in is harder to define things as one thing or another. You know, I think the main reason honestly that I have a harder time using some of the more feminine items on the site and am asking for more masculine ones is because I'm trans, and every day I have to be as masculine as possible or basically I'll get crap from people for not being 'boy' enough, not being 'masculine' enough and I guess I let that carry onto the site (I know I shouldn't because I know no one here will give a crap if I put a flower crown or a long wig on my male HA). My main point was the masculine aspect, and I'm not asking for tons and tons of new items because I know they take time and effort to create. I'm just asking for a couple shorter wigs here and there, maybe some more masculine like button ups like the one on my HA currently and things like that.

Haha yeah but I move out in the summer so yay for that. >:) Like I said above to I know they don't all have to be short and slightly wavy or straight to be considered male, but I'm just asking for a couple more shorter wigs that are more masculine.

Masculinity is the key to what I'm trying to suggest, basically.

And that's true, I mean if they don't want to make more male items, that's fine. I'm not going to get butt hurt if these suggestions don't get through, and they have every right to deny the request and I understand and am okay with that. If they really don't want to make more, they could very well just say that and I'd drop the whole thing because it's not THAT big of a deal. But if they aren't going to come out and say hey we just really don't wanna make more male stuff, then I'm gonna keep up with it, because their excuse that the site is mostly female doesn't justify ignoring the male users.

Oh goodness, that's horrible. :x /hugs Yeah, fortunately, I doubt anyone on subeta would seriously mind however you decide to dress your avatar like. If only the real world worked that way. :c /sighs I think what bothers me is when suggestions like these pop up, defining terms are brought up, and I think we're right back with stereotypes, i.e. what it means to be masculine or not. I think most of the problem is actually the avatar face. I've tried making male avatars and I'll get the hair and clothes right, but then the face.. I'm like whaaaaaaat do I do, where's my stubble, where are my bushy eyebrows (I'm female and I actually have bushier eyebrows irl so the pencil thin ones without any definition irk me). Anyway, I'm all for more variety, and I'm glad you made a suggestion thread about it and staff is posting in this thread. :)

Yeah and it does suck that defining terms are generally all very stereotypical but, since I've basically trained my brain that I need to be that stereotypical guy, I'm asking for more generally masculine considered stuff, just because that's how I feel like I want to/should dress. It shouldn't get in the way of playing subeta, which is why I've said that I won't get butt hurt if they don't actually go anywhere with this, but I think at this point on the new suggestion forum people have put out some really awesome ideas and hopefully staff catches on to that forum over there because I think those would be some awesome and helpful resources for artists to have if they were to make this happen.