^ another SJW that ignores that women do the same thing with gay and bisexual men. Oh... but it's okay when a women does it!

Because saying "die cis scum" because you're upset is totally okay! It's not like saying "die trans scum" could ever be based on just... anger and could therefore be as "okay" as being terrible to cis people. Yes, I realize that Listerine is arguing that it's just "venting" and not genuine but that is both NOT an acceptable reason to say things like that and is also false, for many SJWs. Many SJWs are completely fucking genuine about their hatred. Maybe you don't see it because you think it's okay, acceptable, understandable, etc. or you really don't see it... but it's not okay. At all.

How SJWs reason. They don't care about anyone's opinion if it's in the way of their circlejerk!

More SJW reasoning. When did I say this? Looks like SJWs are putting words in my mouth again. No means no, people.

Nice, kind people who aren't oppressing anyone and who treat everyone as equal are not oppressors. There is no reasoning behind saying that they are. People who actively stop progress, who actively oppress others, who actively treat others badly because of their gender identity or sexual orientation (like the SJWs) are being assholes and can be oppressing others. No, the kind people who try to change things or don't do anything to hinder progress and treat everyone as equals are NOT oppressing anyone.

Quoting again because this is amazingly stupid, hateful and disgusting:

This is right after saying I'm making shit up because I mocked their comments about all "cishets." So, they say I had it wrong... then show me that I had it right.

I've never said "all", but SJWs can only think in black and white. I say, "Not all" they see "all" or "none." They also continue to say "cishets" as if they are one group with no different individuals. They take my words and twist them into something idiotic.

So yeah, can't take any of you seriously and none of your arguments deserve to be taken seriously. You ignore me when I say oppression exists but NOT EVERYONE WHO IS CIS AND HETERO IS INVOLVED IN IT AND A LOT OF YOUR "OPPRESSION" IS BULLSHIT and only focus on the things I've said that are anti-SJW... which you twist.

I do hope you kids learn to not be so angry all the time, but if not... oh well. Just more people who waste their lives hating people and arguing that it's okay to hate people or speak hatefully about groups of people for things they can't change while not having the basic capacity to see what is so ironically hypocritical in that.

SJWs aren't doing "activism", they are making their cause look bad and they almost always twist their cause into something terrible. It goes from being pro-gay rights to being anti-hetero. It's not okay, it's not reasonable, it's not rational, it's not something people should do. They are setting their own cause back by acting insane.

You said it yourself!

Implying that that's mutually exclusive.

And actually yeah, there's all sorts of evidence that our society has institutionalized problems that nice, kind people can participate in without even knowing it. That's the nature of the problem. It's easy for people it ignore and that's why it's still a problem. They aren't direct oppressors, like I said, the system is the big problem here, not individuals. And even nice individuals can participate in a system that treads on others, without realizing. And no, they don't deserve to be attacked, nobody does. But yeah, you can definitely participate in all sorts of institutions that promote isms without ever realizing it. I could give you some examples? I feel like you're already just writing me off though, and I get tired of arguing this. When people start screaming "SJWs!" I am weary of even discussing it because you tend to overlook the real problems, and I'm not really gonna spend my free time arguing facts with you if you're not really going to listen. Not if you think I'm just a conspiracy nut.

You're coming off as pretty aggressive here, I am not trying to make anything personal. I am not going to comment on your "they're saying I'm getting it wrong then show me I have it right" thing because you've been saying a lot of stuff that warrants a "practice what you preach" comment or two, which is totally off topic here. I'm not a "kid" and don't appreciate being called one. I'm not "angry at the world" or an angry person, actually, and it's weird that you project that onto everyone who has the opinion that there isn't equality in general. Again, I'm not interested in getting into your personal issues, so if that's how you continue to reply I'm probably just gonna ignore this topic. It's already getting too off topic.

That's fine if you want to write off an opinion you don't agree with. It's fine if you want to tell me that I'm getting things wrong because I do not agree with the people in this thread who are arguing that, while it's not "okay" to hate people based on what they are, that it's "understandable" and that "heterophobia isn't the same as homophobia." They're wrong. There isn't really anything that can be used as an argument against that. There are people in this thread who are blaming an entire group of people when, no, the entire group is not responsible.

You, like the others, missed my point again. Kind people who do nothing to hinder progress or who actively fight for progress and treat everyone as equals are not oppressing anyone. This is why people do not take SJWs seriously: because they insist that an entire group of people (a group only in that they are all cis and hetero) are oppressors. You can be like others in this thread and tell me that I am getting that wrong, but I bring it up as said that all "cishets" are oppressors. Unless you, like others, want to tell me that I "misunderstand" someone who says:

But whatever. You, like others, are complaining that I am being dismissive by scoffing at you guys being SJWs. You are SJWs and it is not something positive. There is a difference between someone who does activism (although most attempts at activism are poorly done and only succeed in annoying others and strengthening divisions) and someone who does nothing but write hateful comments about people who did not choose their sexuality or gender identity (or, people who think it's okay to hate people for that, or at least say hateful things).

Not all opinions are equal. Not all deserve to be taken seriously. SJWs always want to claim they're for equality but really they're only interested in saying hateful things (or supporting those saying hateful things) and will not listen to anyone else. They will not listen to reason. They will twist people's words and claim someone said something they didn't. Yet again -- as it has every time I've decided to comment on an SJW-infested thread -- the SJWs here have done that with my comments. They ignore the parts that say, "Yes, oppression exists," and only see the parts that are anti-SJW.

You know what? I'm not going to show respect to an opinion -- or the person who holds it -- that is hateful of people who have a particular gender identity or sexuality. That is what disgusts me about every single SJW in this thread. People in this thread are ones who are against homophobia and transphobia because it's not right to treat people like shit because of their gender identity and sexuality. However, they do not extend that to people who are cis and hetero. Oh no, when it comes to "cishets" it's "understandable" that people are angry and it may not be "okay" to say "die cis scum" but it's just anger and "cishets" shouldn't take it to heart! That's what you lot are arguing and it is fucking disgusting.

If you want to have your opinion treated with respect, if you want to not be spoken to like a child, if you want to be seen as equal to others... show that you deserve it.

Go ahead and ignore this topic. All the better for those of us who are not hateful scum.

This quote (although really, your entire posts count) sums up perfectly what kind of person you are. You are blaming the victims. Again, SJWs are the most disgustingly hypocritical, hateful groups that wants to pretend they're good people. So a "cishet" says they've had to put up with verbal abuse from an LGBT person... and your response is to say, "Well, you're not going through something as bad as those people. If you want to call yourself an ally you'll have to suck it up."

No. You are wrong, hateful and hypocritical. The most disgusting thing that you lot do is pretend to be the "good guys." You are far from it.

[edit] Also just going to add that, like always, the SJWs like to say, "You don't understand," to everything. I understand what you're saying perfectly. I don't agree with it. My disagreeing is not misunderstanding. Yes, I understand you lot throw in, "It's not okay but..." and I know you think I'm just taking the, "calling people 'die cis scum' is understandable" part and saying that's wrong, but no. Saying 'die cis scum' is wrong (that shouldn't have to be said, by the way... I wouldn't have to say that to sane people) but I also think it's wrong to say that it's understandable. It is wrong to brush it off and think it's 'understandable' and that someone who doesn't put up with the shit you lot throw at them "isn't an ally."

I am not part of the LGBT community. It is toxic, it is hypocritical, and it is full of SJWs who are mentally unstable. Go ahead and call me ableist as well; it's been a few days since I got called that so I guess I need to check my not-crazy privilege again. The anger and aggression I've shown in this thread is something you all deserve when you make excuses for people hating someone because of their gender identity or sexuality... or wait, showing hatred but omg don't take it seriously it's just cuz you're a cishet. Also when you blame the fucking victim by saying that, if someone says, "Enough" when getting bombarded with hate from an SJW that means they're not an ally.

I'm sorry, it's getting late for me and I'm a little sleepy. Abbreviated, since I feel like I'm not doing as good of a job getting my points across and I don't want to start arguing about things that I actually don't disagree with:

I'm not saying that every single person is an oppressor, I'm saying we can all be part of an oppressive system unknowingly. There is a big difference and I agree that people shouldn't attack others over this kind of thing, and I also agree that a lot of the "SJW community" aren't actually activists even though they say they are.

I agree that people take things and twist shit and in general there are toxic communities and individuals and you and everyone else who is a target or even just feels targeted has every right to distance themselves from them and call them out for verbal abuse. And RE: my earlier comment: I did clearly say to distance themselves from violent and hateful people because their health comes first, and that violent and abusive people aren't in the right. The point is there isn't an equality in mean online comments vs actual oppression, and I apologize for that coming off as victim blaming. I will make it clearer next time that I don't think that's okay. And hey I apologize for thinking you were dismissing the concept of oppression, that is how your posts were coming off. My original point which still stands is that this is too focused on "hate vs hate" which is not the actual case, see my comments about people unwittingly participating in institutions and systems that perpetuate oppression. Anger IS understandable, that is a separate concept from saying abuse is justified.

Honestly the hate vs hate thing is getting out of hand. You yourself said in an earlier post you hate these kinds of people. So, that's okay? Obviously your own dislike of this is only "strengthening divisions" in itself. So forgive me for generally dismissing that kind of talk as pointless, it's an annoying cycle to get stuck in. I should have been more clear earlier when I say the general movements, outside of the people who are bitter attackers, are a lot bigger and more important than those bitter attackers, and while they are definitely not in the right to literally abuse people, those people who get insulted over the internet are not facing the same kind of hate that oppressed people in general are. My argument is typically outside the realm of most bitter attackers. I am always gonna attempt to emphasize the point of oppression = real, happening right now, and you don't have to be bitter and hateful to take part in systems that benefit from and perpetuate it. That's just life.

Edit: I feel like that's generally what I'm trying to say, and if you or anyone else wants to continue this discussion, sans SJW stuff, I will over PM/Smail. I am definitely not gonna argue over SJWs, or anti-SJWs, or any of that. It's beside my own points here, which are getting off topic. And I'm not about to dive in to the "you have to earn being talked to like adults" thing, as hypocritical as that is. This is getting too personal.

I just want to say that I'm over here trying to piece together everyone's points of view so I can get this right in my head and include everything that's been brought up. I apologize again if I somehow offended anyone in any way, that was NEVER my intention! I just want to learn where everyone is coming from, and I'm kind of bad with words. I've gathered new information since my last post, especially from reading everyone's responses, so please don't take that as my "final answer" on how I feel, since some things may change. Like I said, I want to try to make sense of everything now, so that I can form my own solid opinion on every aspect. And maybe I still need to hear more (I probably need to hear more) before I can do that. I promise you I'm trying! I don't want anyone to think that I've simply lain down and given up on trying to understand different points of view as best I can.

Ugh words. ;; I'm sorry. I'll edit this when I can.

No worries! I blocked Mouse also I'm a little inebriated so I DON'T TOTALLY 100% KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON AND I MIGHT MAKE NO SENSE, but I can tell you're trying to understand :) Nothing you've said has offended me, I know you're just trying to learn because you want to get it right, and that's admirable. I'm into that.

For me, the underlying point is basically: cishetphobia is less of a problem than homophobia because the impact is WAY less devastating, but it's not productive and it's not something people should do when they're trying to get things done, because nobody is going to be like, "Wow you hate me let me get behind your cause". AT THE SAME TIME, I don't think queer/trans people should be given a ton of shit over this because it's not the end of then world, it's an emotional response to oppression/hurt feelings/physical harm, and the hatred of an entire group of people really isn't actually there. Nobody I've met 4real hates straight people.

I AM INEBRIATED BUT HOPEFULLY THAT MAKES SENSE but yeah YOU'RE GOOD

Hey, for the record, you're cool with me. You seem like you legit are trying to understand.

Any 'phobia', any hate, is 100% wrong and a problem. Anger should be expressed and then dealt with, not allowed to poison any viewpoint. It does not matter what side you are on. Anyone can oppress. My grandmother believed she was a man, down to sexual orientation. I am bisexual. My mother is straight. All of them would agree with me on this. Never participate in hate. No excuse, no anger, is EVER good enough. :)

Edit: I don't mean like psychological phobias, btw.

Okay, I can't even bother reading Mouse's stuff because someone doesn't UNDERSTAND what a GENERALIZATION is of an OPPRESSIVE GROUP.

Any member of an oppressed group is 100% justified in feeling angry at an oppressive group, and it's when you internalized that feeling, you need to step back and ask why you feel victimized. If a trans woman were beat up by a bunch of cis guys, and you are a cis guy who is helping her pick herself up, would you get upset that she says bitterly that she hates cis guys? Not if you understood the gravity of the situation. What she hates is that there is a group of people, threatened by her existence, that feel the need to beat her to the ground. You should know you're not part of that group, but rather acknowledge that it is YOUR JOB as a member of that group to keep an eye on the others in the group and catch that sort of behaviour.

As a trans guy, I can say that I am bitter about cis people because they're considered 'Normal' and the default. If you don't pass as a cis person, you end up either misgendered or called a freak.

We know not every cis/het does this. We know that. We don't pull out a list of all the cis/het people in this world and declare we hate them all by name. What we hate is the privilege, the stigma against us, the exclusion, the fact that we are a buzz word and a 'neat friend' to show off and excuse anything cissexist.

And another note on Mouse- I've heard about you. You're notorious for being literal trash as far as I can tell. YOU do not represent EVERYONE. NO ONE DOES. So stop speaking like you have all powerful authority and putting other people down.

The thing a lot of people fail to understand is that a privileged group can't be oppressed on the basis of what makes them privileged. Any -ism and -phobia involves widespread systematic oppression, which cisgender, straight, White and male people will never experience due to those characteristics. (ex: A cisgender gay man might be disadvantaged or discriminated against, but not because he's cis or male.) Calling something cisphobia or heterophobia is kind of a knee-jerk reaction to a legitimate defense mechanism. I'm not criticising you, OP--you didn't invent those terms or anything. I just think it's important to make the distinction.

Are trans* people constantly oppressed by every cis person they interact with? Not even close--and it's not about that anyway. It's about recognizing that as a community, cisgender people have a history of shitty behavior re: trans* people, so it's normal to be cautious or even a little bit cynical.

Case in point: I'm a cisgender bisexual woman, and I often find myself saying "gay men are the worst". It's not homophobic or misandrist; I used to work for a gay entertainment website, and my experience with both the editors and the readers showed me that as a general rule, most gay men do not give a flying fuck about the rest of the queer community as long as they're represented. (Seriously--in almost every case, seeing a white gay man on television pretty much "solved" homophobia in their eyes.) That and they're incredibly prone to biphobia within their own community. So hey, I'm 100% wary of gay dudes, and I'll often roll my eyes at input from gay men re: LQBT issues. It's not homophobia. It's acknowledging a widespread problematic behavior and being BEYOND DONE with it, which is a perfectly normal reaction but not necessarily one everyone will share.