Just saying thanks for the helpful suggestions that I got (especially thanks to !), I have contacted the proper authorities (PayPal, Rip-off Report, and the local police), and am waiting for their correspondence. However, some other things have come up, and I won't be able to keep checking back on Subeta for replies and other things, so I'm going to ask or to close the topic. Again, I appreciate all the comments! Hopefully PP and RR will have some answers for me soon.

Fuck I hate Parelli. And a cheap Parelli ripoff clearly isn't better lol Some "trainers" are such dicks. At least you can take comfort in knowing that if he thinks you're doing it wrong, you're probably doing it right Ever read Fugly Horse of the Day? It's a pretty great blog, she's hilarious and down to earth and calls out "experts" like that for all their shit. I actually think the most recent post is about Parelli being an idiot

Pat Parelli and to a lesser extent, Clinton Anderson aren't exactly bastions of wonderful horsemanship or behavior! He sounds like Clinton in real life, people constantly remark on how much of an ass he is to everyone at his clinics, including his invited riders and his girlfriend/business manager. Pat's been known to lash out too, though more at horses than people.

You could email FuglyBlog, might get posted there, lol!

Technically he does have the "non-refundable" clause under the PayPal button (unless he added that just because of you, XD) so you might be stuck and just have to write off the $10 to him being an ass. Sounds like it's probably happened in the past though, if he were a better 'people' person he would probably do more clinics and have more clients and not have to be answering questions for 10 bucks!

I'd say you're just better off, and warn any friends in his area that he's an asshat.

Edit: He's in CA apparently, they have pretty strict consumer protection laws and laws about what information he can collect (or release). Might just toss the threat to send out your contact info over to someone in the AG's office.

You could also technically send it to the police, but it's doubtful they'd do anything.

Don't forget to complain to the BBB if he's listed since you have the nice emails for proof.

(Subeta lagging horribly for anyone else?)

I like some of Parelli's tactics, but there is no one trainer that I can say I really "like". I'll use some of his methods (I liked the idea of lateral longing for instance), but yeah. I heard about him getting bucked off at Road to the Horse in TN. xD

I'll check out that Fugly Horse thing, never heard of it!

Haha, I'll keep that in mind though. I am happy with the progress I've made with all of my horses so far, no problems, doc! I must be doing something right, anyway. And like I said, I just wanted to see how he'd react to my scenario. (Older colt bolting when being lead away from the barn.)

I caught and trailered a 15 year old mare who'd been abused with a rope for nine years, who was so absolutely afraid of ropes that you couldn't do jack shit with her. The two men who were looking after her couldn't get in less than twenty feet of her if they had a rope. I went to get her, saw it happen, and then in less than a minute I had a halter and rope on her leading her out to a trailer. That was pretty damn incredible. I get chills thinking about it; that was undoubtedly my biggest success in life. Ever. And it probably will be until I die. xD

Ha, no, i totally get where you're coming from with Anderson and Parelli. xD Like I said up there, I like certain methods that they use, but most of it seems like a farse to me. I hate watching Anderson's videos, it makes me feel bad inside. :C But I admit that, after reading one of his books, I did feel better about disciplining a belegerent mare I have. Some of the things he suggests worked for her, without inducing fear, so I was happy and couldn't complain. I have no intention of ever meeting any of them in person though -- it mind end up in tears.

I don't recall the "no refund" clause, to be honest. And I will definitely email it to Fugly though, if that's a possibility. :] I am also going to look into the BBB and see what else might be done about him posting my info. I did read his "release" and knew the risks of that, but I expected it would happen even if I was happy with the response. He seems really fond of posting the information of people that don't agree with him.

Just the whole idea of breaking a young horse in a day or two is ridiculous, and I don't have a lot of respect for anyone who does it. All it does is scare them and ruin them for later in life - especially when they're started young enough to harm their joints. Between that and all the insane 'miracle products', Parelli just isn't to my taste haha. I don't really follow any big-name trainers though, just work with my coach.

That's really sweet, I love making breakthroughs with troubled horses. I don't have any really cool anecdotes like that, but I did manage to teach a nervous ex trail pony the difference between trotting and cantering (she pretty much just had walk mode and run mode), as well as a bunch of basic lateral dressage-type stuff, started her jumping, and got her confidence up. I was so proud of how she turned out, she's an adorable little hunter school pony now.

Yeah, it's right under the paypal button in bold, so he probably got mad about you wanting a refund, lollll.

He sounds like a straight-up ass and if he does release any info you should report him.

There are also various well trafficked horse forums you could post him to (Chronicle of the Horse is the big one that comes to mind, but I just find it decently moderated (mostly))

I totally get you. My step-brother is into "breaking", brags about it really. Brags about how many horses he sends off, and pays $1k to have "broken". I tried to explain to him the gentle process that I will be taking my colts through personally, but he laughed it down. :/ He had his stud horse started at 18 months and I just didn't have words for him, I had to walk away.

Haha, that's the only real story I've got. I could brag about my pony colt for ages though, because I love him to tears. Anyway, that's something I would love to do one day, train for discipline. I think that definitely takes a lot more than just training for your necessities, I can really respect a person who can put that kind of time and effort into training. It can't be easy. How long have you been doing it? I was given a high-dollar halter colt for free last year, but I think he would make an excellent jumper or even a reigning prospect with the build he has. I promised the woman I wouldn't show him in halter, because she competes with other foals from the same stud, but it feels like such a let-down to the poor horse if I don't do something ommggaamazinnggg with him. xD

Posted a minor topic on CoTH actually, no one has responded. xD I haven't updated with the situation yet, I was headed that way to update when I started this topic and got sidetracked with Fugly and the BBB. I'm going to keep an eye out for any info. though. Sub'd to his Youtube account so I figure that'll be the first place he goes.

I know nothing about horses but these two people know a TON xP

Thanks. =) Hope to hear from them.

Also, just a general BTW: Updated my CoTH post.

No problem :) I love your forumset btw :)

Thanks. xD Fan of Sleipnir or Manowar (or both!)?

Haha I really wouldn't call myself a trainer, my coach kinda makes all the calls, I just ride the projects and practice with them and everything. My first project was in 2006 so I guess about 5 years? It's really just patience and repetition, all the horses I work with are already broke to ride and everything, I'm just supposed to get them to stop bucking or start over fences or learn the basics as opposed to just trucking someone around. I love riding green horses, they're their own kind of challenge and it's always interesting. As for the discipline I've just always ridden H/J at a H/J barn, so that's pretty much what we do. I think it'd be great to take him over fences and start showing him on either the H/J or eventing circuit, although I'm probably a little biased about preferred disciplines haha. But yeah if you've got a potentially fantastic jumper, definitely see what he can do C: Do you keep your horses at home and work with them yourself pretty much exclusively? If you want to try him in a new discipline like that I'd recommend finding a reputable trainer/barn with that focus and taking him there for a little bit - at my barn the system is pretty much board (or trailer in weekly) and take lessons, and the lessons are what shapes the horse; you ride and the coach instructs on what to do with him. On a side note, this is a pretty hilarious satirical comparison lol

(Long post because I can't get to sleep and I need something to do because I am so paranoid right now I could diiiieeee.)

That's still something though. :C I have a secret want to do those kinds of things, but at the same time there are practices in those disciplines I don't agree with (depending on the trainer, I figure they can't all be the same), so I know I wouldn't have a good chance at it because I'm so biased. I really would love to though, if I could get over some of the things. (Like jumping on a tight rein. I hate the pictures of horses jumping that have their lips pulled right down to the bottom of their jaw, foaming, and dripping with sweat. It just doesn't look like fun. This looks like fun. / This looks like owww..)

I don't ride with bits, for instance, because of all the horror stories I have heard about people falling and ripping their horse's mouth by holding onto the reins -- and all manners of things. Tongues getting cut, busted teeth, ripped mouths... It's a long and probably uninteresting opinion dribbled minorly with actual experience; the horse I mentioned earlier did not take a bit because she was ridden poorly with one in the past, hence the reason boys tried riding her with ropes. I don't mind bits as long as they're used responsibly, but I personally wouldn't put one in the mouth of one of my horses. xD

But I would still love to. I'm not sure if Dr. Cook's bridles are accepted in jumping events or not? I think I read that some places might allow it but I'm not 100%. I use those bridles though, and I'm sure I'll get laughed at for it. x) My step-brother does, he thinks it's so stupid. I think they're pretty freaking hot though.

Of my horses, this particular colt (aptly named Hunter when I got him, so it's a siiiiign!) is the only one I would be tempted to go into discipline with. I had this feeling he would be a good jumper, it kind of scared me actually because my temporary fence was only 4ft, and my pony mare is a temperamental beast. I was terrified he might try to jump it, but thankfully all went well. But he just had this way about him, the look that said, "I will jump that fence, damn straight, home girl. Dat my fence. Mmhmmmm." But when I'd turn him out to run -- especially in the snow -- he had all the right motions, perfect stops. He looked like a reining horse that did shit for fun. xD He would come flying down the field to the barn and would walk on his fronts right into the doorway before he turned around and did it all over again. He was a hoot to watch. And it was gorgeous. I absolutely hated the idea of reining until I saw him do it so beautifully and naturally, and thought, you know, it might be worth trying if it's something he enjoys doing anyway. The same for jumping. xD I would definitely try him in jumping first though, because that was my initial thing. He could always take up reining if he hasn't got a flare for H/J.

My horses are kept at home, there's no boarding facility or trainer within an hour or so. I don't know of any that aren't prestigious or high-dollar anyway, even if they're within that hour's drive. My cousin had a H/J trainer, but they're over an hour away, and that's not a trip I can be making daily -- or even weekly, with other things that demand my time. I would honestly be tempted to try her trainer for jumping, because she seems interested in some of the ideals of natural horsemanship, so I think she would be lenient with a Dr. Cook's. I just can't go that far. :<

That link was hilarious. Actually, I know a person who kind of fits in one of them. "Can be found trying to teach her horse to come in the kitchen to eat so she doesn't have to walk all the way to the barn." When my dad was a kid, he did that. He brought his horse into the house, his mom could've killed him I think. But that was like half a century ago or more, I'm pretty sure there were a lot of backwater Kentuckians that did that. xD;

NOW THAT I HAVE BORED YOU TO DEATH...

What a horrible experience to have to go through, dear god. What an asshole. I swear, some people should not even be allowed near horses... let alone train them.

I love horses, but unfortunately I don't get much chance to ride or anything as of late because I'm busy with college. I do get to work with them a lot due to my program though (animal health technology), so having previous horse experience definitely helped with all that business. I would love to start riding during the summer though. I'm not nearly experienced enough (nor do I have the time) to train a young/abused/neglected horse... but I would really like to one of these days. I think it would be such a heart-warming experience to see a horse (or any animal really) make a break through because of your actions.

he sounds like an ass. though posting screenshots would be a plus.

So I've contacted the BBB because now he's posted a RR of me. God damn, what is with this man. I kind of feel sick right now. xD Here comes another stomach ulcer...

(edited: I'm going to try my hand at ignoring him... Worst comes to worst I can change my name and move to India or something.)

Ugh, I hate over commericalized horse "trainers". I watched a show on tv with one of them, (an Aussie guy whose name I can't remember,) and was completely mortified. It was supposed to be brand new horses who had yet to be ridden very much or at all. The guy was on the horse maybe 10 minutes and was like "LOLOLOL, look at how wonderful my training works!1!!". It was very clear the horse had had extensive training beforehand and had just came in from a good workout because the poor thing was sweaty and tired. And he got the breed so wrong. He said the gelding was a Thoroughbred, when in reality it might of been an Appendix QH at best. I got so angry I turned off the tv and stormed out of the room.

The rest of them annoy me to no end. They're all asshats underneath all the tv make-up and glamour.

I'll stick to my own methods. I've been training horses since I was 12, so I think my way works. :P If I need help with something, I ask another boarder to help me because I know she knows what she's doing. She used to be a trainer and rider for Arabian Nights in Florida, (she was one of the main performers before she got preggo,) so she knows a thing or two. I love learning from her. Watching her work with her horses, or anyone else's, is just...awesome.

Really there are some people in pretty much every discipline who are just idiotic and can give the whole thing a bad name. Jumping on a tight rein isn't encouraged anywhere I've seen lol, but of course, it happens. There will always be the polished, professional competitor who treats the horse well, and there will always be the chubby chick who thinks that the jumper ring's relatively loose dress code means she can wear an Oilers jersey and a helmet covered in tinfoil for some reason in the ring and proceeds to either rip her horse's face off or fall on his neck over every jump. Well maybe not always her specifically (although that happened and we all laugh about it to this day), but there's always someone.

As for bits, they're another one of those things that some can ruin for many through horror stories of abuse. I've always used them and never had a problem, no blood or pain or even foaming at the mouth. One mare I worked with absolutely loved playing with hers and literally chewed it in time with every step she took, she was so focused on it, it was pretty adorable. I kind of view that as something that can be used cruelly but rarely is, the same way I don't mind using lead ropes with chains on the end because I've never thought to harm a horse with the chain at all, despite tales of abusive owners gouging into horses' faces. It's just avoidable without boycott (but obviously there's no harm in not using them either). I know Dr. Cook's aren't allowed on the bigger H/J circuits, but I'm sure there are some schooling circuits and individual shows who welcome them.

But yeah definitely start him over fences and see how he takes it, sounds like he's got potential lol, I love when you can just see the flare and willingness to try something a horse has. It's a shame there are really no barns like that around but you can always try him yourself and see how he does C: I never knew much about reining, I'm pretty sheltered from the world of western, but after seeing this I looked it up more and it's really amazing what they do. As everywhere, there are some abusive idiots, but a lot of the horses look like they're genuinely having a good time, and the result is really cool. The reining pony in that video, Smart Rattle Snake, has another on youtube that just exemplifies all that is good about reining.

(PS totally not bored) (PPS to see even more horses (okay ponies) that love their lives, lookit the shetland pony grand national. That one pony's rider falls off and he legit just keeps jumping because he loves it and is adorable)

Sounds like Clinton Anderson, he's an Aussie and is "renowned" for his colt starting. RFDTV? He has a show there. Not sure about anywhere else. He's a big money-maker, loads of people are into him. He has some good advice about getting respect on the ground, but other than that I don't like how pushy and over-demanding he is, especially with young horses. I wouldn't go to one of his clinics or anything. I did buy two of his books back when I first heard about him, to see how he operates (same with Parelli and a number of others). I hate the gimmicks and the money-making bullcrap, but I think that every trainer/"trainer" that has something new to bring, could be tried out. So I did. I stopped halfway through Parelli's book, took lateral longing from him and that was it. It works for my dominant horse, but nothing else of his had lasting effects. I felt like he was too soft initially, I couldn't get my horses to respond to his suggestions. With Clinton's books too, I got about halfway and had to stop, because it all came down to one thing: You move your horse's feet, make them movemovemovemove, wear them out, movemovemove. Pretty repetitious. I don't like the way in which he "backs with energy" constantly, it's overkill. They felt like total polar opposites (but that might just be my impression, dunno.)

I have an Appendix QH who is about 80% TB rofl, she looks a lot like one. xD I think OTTBs are popular horses for training, I guess a lot of people think that they're lost causes or hopeless or something because they've been "run down" at an early age? So it sounds really interesting to say, "This OTTB is learning to ride for real!" Dunno, that's the impression I get from a lot of trainers that boast about OTTBs though. xD I wouldn't mind one, I think they're happenin' stuff. Don't have that kind of money though, so I deal with wittle ponies no body wants anymore. :C

I take my training methods from a large number of trainers, try each suggestion out, and see which one has the biggest effect on the horse. For instance, backing up (simple though it is, there are shitloads of ways to teach it), some trainers suggest tapping the lead rope and varying intervals until the horse backs. This has never worked for me, at all. Apply pressure to the poll or bridge of the nose occasionally works, one of my colts just dips his head to get away from it. Pressure to the chest works, but the same colt tended to lean into the pressure more, requiring more force to back them up. Personally, I apply small amounts of pressure to the lead rope pulling back and say "back up". Having used the aid of a voice command with my big colt, Hunter, he practically backs on voice alone. He's a very verbal horse, my other colt is totally opposite, I could be mute and he'd never know the difference. xD Over the last couple of months while training my foals, I've compared the tactics of a lot of trainers and, I'll be honest, I like the conventional methods used by people no one has ever heard of before. Simple stuff, nothing fancy, doesn't hurt the horse, doesn't require any fancy "carrot stick" or special rope, no fear, no force, and a fairly soft touch.

I am always, always reading new books and seeing what's out there. (So I like reading suggestions. :D)

I haven't been in it long, but I did get my first horse (the App. QH) when I was 12 too (or around there, it was a long time ago so I don't remember rofl). I didn't know jack squat about horses then, I just knew they were pretty and I reallyreallyreally wanted one. So my dad got her for me. She is a huuuuge babydoll, we'd play together for ages in the field, like a couple of foals. I'd run up a tree and she'd prance around with her tail high, and I'd jump down and she'd run over to nuzzle me. That's all I knew about horses. You fed them some grain, and you could pet them and sometimes ride them around a little -- I never rode her though, she was way too big for me as a kid. Not big for a horse, but I'm a tiny person. xD

(Rambling bellowww.)

After her, I was out of it for about nine years. My dad remarried and moved, and my horse got left at my uncle's house. I couldn't go visit often (he lives about 45min away), so I saw her sparingly. I went a trail ride in Montana in 2009, and I realized how much I missed her. So I started doing lots of reading, lots of investing in things and learning. So I had my brother come pick me up every weekend, so I could go see her more often, and learn a little bit with her. After a couple of months of that, I had some pastures mowed down (more like, chopped down), a new fence build, and a new barn, and I got three new horses. My App. QH is boarding with a woman I worked for last year, while I decide if she's something I can keep or not. :/

uhhgggg huusssh you're making me so jealous. :C The more I read your posts the more I wish we had that kind of stuff around here. I wouldn't even mind not participating, just going to watch and observe would be enough. FFFFF. English disciplines can be so beautiful, they're something I would love to learn more about. How did you get started? Like, what spurred your interest in jumping?

Haha, that sounds cute. :3 That ride I went on in Montana, there was a horse like that. My step-brother says he has a horse that treats a bit like candy too, but I pretty much take him with a grain of salt anyway. I totally understand though, I think that goes for a lot of things. I would just be afraid of running the risk of an accident though. Not that I'm a huge worrywart or anything (because, I totally am), I just have nightmares about accidents. All the time. As for Dr. Cook's, I have no desire of going through any big, high-dollar competition. As it's been seen so far, I do nooooot do well with pressure, rofl, and that would be the epitome of pressure. xD If the trainer I'm thinking of, that my cousin went to, allowed them then that would be absolutely awesome. But, then there's the issue of actually going there... :/ I guess it never hurts to talk to them, so I'll see what my cousin thinks.

I think I will see how he does with the idea. :3 I'll see how he takes jumping small obstacles on the ground, it's about time to do some new things in his routine anyway so that'll be an exciting start. I don't plan to start him under saddle at all until he's at the very least, two years (it sounds fair, I'll be the one starting him and I'm barely 5' and 120lbs), so during that time what kind of activities should I expect to be teaching to a H/J prospect? Is there any reading I could look into, any suggested material? I'll look into trainers too, see if by some miracle there isn't someone hiding around the corner that I never knew existed before.

That was a great video, loved the comparison, and then in the middle when they switched, pretty funny. I love the way dressage looks, in idea, it's so fluid and... elegant. But then at the same time I don't actually like to see it. ANYWAY. Here's a great video on free style reining. I think that horse is in a bosal, he has loads of movement and just gets really into it. IMO I think it'd be easy to hurt the horse in reining with a bit, or just not get a good performance, like in the video of the dressage/reining comparison, the horse was really held back and not wanting to push forward. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLY4cpWloy8]This one[url] is great though, I didn't see the performance before but I knew Gunner won during the WEG so I figured his performance (in a bit, but riding loose) would had to've been something. And it's great, awesome example of freestyle. I can toootally see why he won.

AND AAAHHH That pony was adorable. Runrunjumprunrunjump. Feel bad for the girl but I gotta hand it to the pony, I bet he could've won. Look at that little guy gooo. Haha, it looked like at the end he was, "Wait, wtf!" xD

Alrighty, first off: This dude is an ass, period. Don't feel bad!

Secondly: He now has your info up on his site if you haven't seen it yet. Hopefully none of his followers are as psycho as him and nothing will come of it, but I just thought you should be aware it's out there.

Third: The best people to contact at this point to get your info taken down (since at this point he's crazy and he'll personally probably never let it go so it's a lost cause on that front) are, in order:

1. The police (707 449 5200 - non-emergency number, pretty sure Vacaville is where he lives)

They may listen, they may not.

Other police numbers that may apply: (707) 421-7030 - Sheriff for the county 707.428.7300 - Non-Emergency number of the city where the air force base (his listed P.O. Box) is. He may live there.

2. His website's host (GoDaddy.com)

Send a complaint that he's hosting your personal information on his site and encouraging harassment with it:

Office of the President .com">President.com GoDaddy.com 14455 N. Hayden Rd. Suite 226 Scottsdale, AZ 85260 (480) 505-8828 Phone (480) 275-3975 Fax

Tell them to pull the info, stop hosting the site, or you'll be holding them responsible as well. Or you can take the 'ask nicely' approach, and explain that you're tired of being harassed and don't want him to be able to encourage others to do that with his GoDaddy site.

3. Travis Air Force Base (Community Relations number: (707) 424-0132, or Base Operator: (707) 424-1110 - ask for public relations or someone in charge of the post office)

Explain that someone using their address (he has a Travis Air Force Base P.O. Box) is harassing you, and is there anything that can be done about it? If he's still connected with the base enough to have a P.O. Box, they may have a way to tell him to lay off.

Here's the P.O. Box

PO Box 1206 Travis Air Force Base, CA 94535

Other than that, the biggest thing is to just not continue to have any contact with him (don't respond to any emails you get), just save everything (both the text and a screenshot should probably be good).

Hopefully ONE of those should scare him enough (or in the case of GoDaddy, has the direct power to do it for him) to remove the info.